# Mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be secular liberals (not a rant about libs) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 11, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838 "2004-06-11T16:41:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/1 "2004-06-11T16:41:06Z")
This isn’t a rant about secular liberals. It’s about intolerance. When we first started home schooling our two oldest daughters, we bought a book about home schooling, and with the purchase of the book received a one-year subscription to a magazine called Homeschooling Today. I did not renew my subscription because, in the last issue, there was an editorial about the importance of Christian homeschooling clubs _not_ being inclusive. It talked about the damage that is being done to good Christian families by exposure to kids of other religions. I decided the magazine was a little too intolerant for my taste, and did not renew. Well, now they’ve reformatted the magazine (New and Improved. . .20% more inclusions of references to Christ, Jesus, the Savior, Christianity and godliness)! So they sent me a free issue to peruse. One of the articles included the following: > [@](#): > > The mother in this story is worried. She loves her children, and she is concerned that they might **turn into secular liberals the moment the leave home**. . . . It also includes the following: > [@](#): > > This means that older children know that they are free to have their own views, and that their parents will still love and respect them for who they are. For example, if one of your children decides to become a vegetarian and the rest of the family does not embrace those eating habits, don’t ridicule his convictions. You want to support him, **even if you think he is a little off his rocker**. Well, now, there’s a good way to show support! By “thinking your kid is off his rocker”! Some of you may know that I’m not a liberal, and not secular. But, I’m sorry, if this woman can’t find anything worse to fear than her kids (who, the article mentions, are 20 and 21 years old) becoming secular liberals, something is horribly wrong! WTF is wrong with these people?!?!? Couldn’t you spare a little concern for the idea that your kid might marry someone who’s abusive? What about some concern for the idea that your kid might start, oh, I dunno, shooting heroin? The article certainly reads like, for this kind of person, you don’t need to worry about these things. Because you know that being a secular liberal is by far the very worst thing a person can be. Far better to be an axe-murderer who votes the Republican ticket and goest to Church on Sundays. I mean, at least that way, you can ask Jesus to forgive you for killing all those folks, right? :rolleyes: What is it with people who are convinced that their way is the only way? There’s a questionnaire with this free issue, for the reader to evaluate it. But none of the answers I would check are included in the choices. Go figure. I’m sorry for the lack of profanity in this post. If you’d like to add some of your own, feel free. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/2 "2004-06-11T18:15:20Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > There’s a questionnaire with this free issue, for the reader to evaluate it. That’s a little surprising, seeing as how they seem to be paranoid about all differing views. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/3 "2004-06-11T18:19:40Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > But, I’m sorry, if this woman can’t find anything worse to fear than her kids (who, the article mentions, are 20 and 21 years old) becoming secular liberals, something is horribly wrong! She’s right, though. My parents let me go to an R-rated movie by myself when I was 23 and bang! I was a secular liberal before the closing credits. (There was profanity and adult situations in the movie, which is probably what did it.) Now, every time I see a cute little kitten, I bite it on the head and pull its tail. Back when I loved Jesus, I would never do such a thing. But without Jesus to hold me back, there’s nothing stopping me. I also say “hubba hubba!” when I see an attractive woman walk by. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/4 "2004-06-11T18:37:44Z")
Sigh. Oh, for the days when people were capable of respecting people that disagreed with them. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/5 "2004-06-11T18:43:31Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Sigh. Oh, for the days when people were capable of respecting people that disagreed with them. When was that, asshole? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/6 "2004-06-11T19:07:27Z")
> [@lno](#): > > When was that, asshole? Week ago Thursday, fucknose. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/7 "2004-06-11T19:21:32Z")
That was back when the people who disagreed with us were respectfully burried n mass graves. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/8 "2004-06-11T19:21:49Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Week ago Thursday, fucknose. That was Tuesday, fuckknuckle. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/9 "2004-06-11T19:23:56Z")
I remember a time when we were civil and didn’t pollute other threads with the latest inside jo ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/10 "2004-06-11T19:24:58Z")
I love the whole thought as well that “Homeschooling” can be completely correlated with “Conservative Christian.” Like “patriot=Republican” or “Terrorist=Muslim” or “gay=promiscuous” or even “Christian=intolerant bigot” or “Christian = Conservative” If they want to do a homeschooling magazine targeted to Christians, call the mag “Christian Homeschooling Today” That way at least there might be some clue that the contents MIGHT offend homeschoolers who are secularist liberals (and still might offend those Christians that don’t equal intolerant bigots). ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/11 "2004-06-11T19:25:45Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > Because you know that being a secular liberal is by far the very worst thing a person can be. Maybe it’s the combination that does it – like, if you’re a Christian liberal, or even a Jewish liberal, that’s okay. Agnostic liberal? Oh, all right, I suppose, but better keep an eye on you. Secular liberal? Oh my stars and garters! Martha! Break out the pitchforks and torches, we gots ourselves a SECULAR LIBERAL here! ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/12 "2004-06-11T19:28:18Z")
> [@norinew](#): > > WTF is wrong with these people?!?!? Couldn’t you spare a little concern for the idea that your kid might marry someone who’s abusive? What about some concern for the idea that your kid might start, oh, I dunno, shooting heroin? The article certainly reads like, for this kind of person, you don’t need to worry about these things. Because you know that being a secular liberal is by far the very worst thing a person can be. Becuse everyone knows that if you’re a Christian, you would never try heroin or marry a wife-beater. Someone should also tell the editors at the magazine that there are plenty of secular liberals who also love Jesus. Or is does their commitment to fine, home-based education end at pandering to logical fallacies? ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/13 "2004-06-11T19:34:19Z")
I find it interesting that the values and principles with which this mother has raised her kids are apparently so fragile and easily refuted that the kids will drop them like a hot potato the moment they’re exposed to other ways of looking at the world. Or is that not the subtext of her worries? Maybe she ought consider thinking differently herself. ---
**Author:** ![WernhamHogg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a587f6/32.png) [@WernhamHogg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WernhamHogg)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/14 "2004-06-11T19:42:22Z")
How can I prevent my secular liberal children (so far merely conceptual) one day encountering homeschooled children who are socially retarded, grossly misinformed about the world, judgmental and intolerant? I know they will encounter these miseducated cretins when they bump into restroom attendants and fast food clerks. I am not afraid my children will be corrupted, just that, like me, they will find their mere presence extremely irritating. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/15 "2004-06-11T19:55:27Z")
Hey! I thought it was secular _humanists_ that were the Anti-Christ. Did I miss a memo? ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/16 "2004-06-11T20:12:28Z")
Screw the questionaire—write to the editor, editor-in-chief and/or managing editor of _Homeschooling Today_ and tell them what you’ve told us. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/17 "2004-06-11T20:33:56Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Screw the questionaire—write to the editor, editor-in-chief and/or managing editor of _Homeschooling Today_ and tell them what you’ve told us. To be honest I’ve pretty much given up on homeschooling magazines. The last one I read had about twelve pages dedicated to promoting creation science. Some paleontologist got religion and decided to debunk evolution and the fossil record. He seems to have opened some sort of anti-evolution theme park and published several textbooks with Young-Earth Creationism Science as the explination for Dinosaurs. The editors know which side of the bread has the butter. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/18 "2004-06-11T20:36:11Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > That’s a little surprising, seeing as how they seem to be paranoid about all differing views. I assume the choices are “Agree,” “Really Agree,” “Really, really agree,” and “I think you guys are too goddamned soft on them secular liberals, what are you, a bunch of pinko faggots?” ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/19 "2004-06-11T20:38:11Z")
What’s the big deal here? This woman is a Christian, probably conservative. As a Christian she’s concerned about her children’s souls. She doesn’t want them to forget their Christian upbringing and go astray, if you will. > [@](#): > > This means that **older children know that they are free to have their own views, and that their parents will still love and respect them for who they are**. > _bolding mine_ I think the bolded material is admirable. > [@norinew](#): > > if this woman can’t find anything worse to fear than her kids (who, the article mentions, are 20 and 21 years old) becoming secular liberals, something is horribly wrong! Where in the material you quoted do you get she _can’t_ find something worse to fear? You say this is a rant about intolerance. I understand you have access to the full article but based on what you quoted, I don’t see it. In fact, I see just the opposite. I see a parent who prefers her children remain conservative Christians but will support them if they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838/20 "2004-06-11T20:50:49Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jenaroph_ > I find it interesting that the values and principles with which this mother has raised her kids are apparently so fragile and easily refuted that the kids will drop them like a hot potato the moment they’re exposed to other ways of looking at the world. This is really the upshot of the whole article: that if you raise your children properly (whatever the hell _that_ means), that the children may, at some point, question God, but will eventually become “mature, intelligent Christians” (direct quote from the article). I would take this to imply that if your child becomes an atheist, a Muslim or a Wiccan, that you, as a parent, have failed miserably. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Dangerosa_ > If they want to do a homeschooling magazine targeted to Christians, call the mag “Christian Homeschooling Today” That way at least there might be some clue that the contents MIGHT offend homeschoolers who are secularist liberals (and still might offend those Christians that don’t equal intolerant bigots). I couldn’t agree more! But Biblical inerranists are so commonplace in the home schooling world that we had to make up our own science curriculum for our oldest daughter, because we couldn’t find a packaged one that didn’t teach Creationism. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Eve_ > Screw the questionaire—write to the editor, editor-in-chief and/or managing editor of Homeschooling Today and tell them what you’ve told us. Well, that sounds like a good idea. I wonder how long it would take them to start a prayer chain to pray for the salvation of my immortal soul :rolleyes: . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mamas-dont-let-your-babies-grow-up-to-be-secular-liberals-not-a-rant-about-libs/249838.md?page=2)