# Man arrested for asking girls to wear socks--is this really a sex crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 7, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188 "2012-05-07T16:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Vicullum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vicullum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicullum)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/1 "2012-05-07T16:17:45Z")
[Link.](http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/apr/29/psl-man-accused-of-asking-girls-to-run-in-socks/) A 33 year old man was arrested by Port St. Lucie police and charged with felony lewd or lascivious exhibition committed on, or in the presence of, persons less than 16. So what was he doing? > [@](#): > > According to the arrest report, three girls ages 12 and 13 were approached by a man later identified as Van Wagner. The girls told officers a man had parked a beige pickup truck and approached them with two bags of socks and a request that they put them on their feet. They refused and the man left the socks on a nearby bench. Ok, that’s weird, but is that really a crime? Where does the “lewd” part come in? > [@](#): > > Van Wagner told police he was acting on a “fetish” and that he had been doing it for years in various locations. So, that’s it? I don’t get this case at all. Say I approached you in the street and asked you to do a cartwheel. Harmless, right? But then afterward you learn I have a fetish for cartwheels. Does that mean I just committed a sex crime? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/2 "2012-05-07T16:38:44Z")
I am not licensed in Florida, but a quick search found [this statute](http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/800.04.html) that might be the one he’s charged with violating. Unless there is more to the story, I think it might be difficult to convict on the facts presented. I did not see any mention of anything in the linked article that meets the statutory definition of sexual activity. The guy did apparently mention he has some sort of fetish and that may be what triggered the arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/3 "2012-05-07T17:54:28Z")
Is the fetish for socks, or for getting them to take their shoes off so he can see their bare feet before they put on the socks? Either way, the guy deserves to be on _somebody’s_ radar, out of concern for where his particular obsession might lead. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/4 "2012-05-07T18:10:05Z")
I hope he gets off [rim shot]. ---
**Author:** ![Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c68b51/32.png) [@Ashley\_Pomeroy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashley_Pomeroy)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/5 "2012-05-07T20:03:56Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > two bags of socks Were the socks… clean? If they were dirty, were they just dirty, or… moist? Savour that thought. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/6 "2012-05-07T20:13:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Either way, the guy deserves to be on _somebody’s_ radar, out of concern for where his particular obsession might lead. A job as a shoe salesman? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/7 "2012-05-07T21:22:02Z")
Did he tell the girls about his fetish, or just the police? If he told the girls, then I can see the case: “I consider this act to be sexual, and I am asking you to do it” sounds like he’s asking them to commit a sexual act. But if they didn’t know his reasons for asking, it’s weird and creepy, but doesn’t look legally actionable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/8 "2012-05-07T22:08:44Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > Say I approached you in the street and asked you to do a cartwheel. Harmless, right? But then afterward you learn I have a fetish for cartwheels. Does that mean I just committed a sex crime? That’s a bit of a flawed analogy, don’t you think? How do you think you’d react if you looked out your window and saw a stranger asking your 12 year old daughter to do cartwheels for him? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2012, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/9 "2012-05-07T22:45:49Z")
So you dont have a problem with someone admitting to having a [fetish](http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/fetish) of young girls in socks, and approaching those girls so he can participate in the fetish? Ask the parents of those kids and lets see their reaction… While there are examples of a Fetish being nonsexual in nature, what do you think the chances are that this one is? JMHO, the fact that he interacted with the children is the issue. Had he been at a distance looking, and not interacting, then I would agree with you ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/10 "2012-05-08T02:43:05Z")
> [@](#): > > They refused and the man left the socks on a nearby bench. Well, they definitely got him on a littering rap, so he’s looking at some time. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/11 "2012-05-08T02:48:08Z")
ETA: But, yeah, I don’t see how just being a creepy bastard is a felony. I’m sure that there was something sexual going through his mind, but until we get mind rays that would be bad to start convicting people on this basis. ---
**Author:** ![Vicullum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vicullum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicullum)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/12 "2012-05-08T03:46:32Z")
Update: Found another [link](http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Man-Arrested-for-Sock-Fetish-Cops-149851455.html) with slightly more details. > [@dngnb8](#): > > So you dont have a problem with someone admitting to having a [fetish](http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/fetish) of young girls in socks, and approaching those girls so he can participate in the fetish? > > Ask the parents of those kids and lets see their reaction… No one is saying he isn’t a creepy weirdo. Being creepy and weird isn’t a crime though. > [@](#): > > While there are examples of a Fetish being nonsexual in nature, what do you think the chances are that this one is? Nothing the man did was overtly sexual though. If he hadn’t told the cops anything about his fetish what, then, would they have booked him on? Isn’t this just “thoughtcrime”? > [@](#): > > JMHO, the fact that he interacted with the children is the issue. Had he been at a distance looking, and not interacting, then I would agree with you Yes, he’s the type momma warned you to stay away from, but again, he didn’t do anything overtly sexual. He asked three girls to put on socks. They declined and he left. For this he is being charged with a felony. Is what he did really equivalent to publicly masturbating on a playground or fondling a child? The state is charging him like it is. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/13 "2012-05-08T03:57:51Z")
As described in the article, he was arrested for lewd and lascivious behavior and loitering and prowling. That comes after he did the following: > [@](#): > > Police said Van Wagner kept driving around a park [staring] at the three girls, aged 12 to 13. Then we have the incident where he approached the girls and tried to talk them into wearing the socks, and then… > [@](#): > > he continued to drive past them in the park, the report said. That sounds like pretty clear cut stalking- and more generally like the kind of thing that can get you arrested whether or not you tell the police you have a “sock fetish.” ---
**Author:** ![Vicullum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/6de8d8/32.png) [@Vicullum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vicullum)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/14 "2012-05-08T04:10:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > As described in the article, he was arrested for lewd and lascivious behavior and loitering and prowling. That comes after he did the following: > Then we have the incident where he approached the girls and tried to talk them into wearing the socks, and then… > > That sounds like pretty clear cut stalking- and more generally like the kind of thing that can get you arrested whether or not you tell the police you have a “sock fetish.” Those are [misdemeanors](http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/856.021.html) at best though. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/15 "2012-05-08T04:12:34Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That sounds like pretty clear cut stalking- and more generally like the kind of thing that can get you arrested whether or not you tell the police you have a “sock fetish.” Repeatedly driving past children does not sound like pretty clear cut stalking. I believe the offender would have to have some malicious intent to be engaged in stalking and I don’t think asking kids to try on socks cuts it. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/16 "2012-05-08T04:16:04Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > Those are [misdemeanors](http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/856.021.html) at best though. It may be different for children: > [@](#): > > Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks a minor under 16 years of age commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. [http://crime.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=crime&cdn=newsissues&tm=3&f=20&su=p284.13.342.ip\_p504.6.342.ip\_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx%3FdbID%3DDB\_Florida108](http://crime.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=crime&cdn=newsissues&tm=3&f=20&su=p284.13.342.ip_p504.6.342.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.ncvc.org/src/main.aspx%3FdbID%3DDB_Florida108) But driving past someone repeatedly is not “following” and I doubt that asking kids to try on socks counts as “malicious.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/17 "2012-05-08T04:16:12Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > Those are [misdemeanors](http://law.onecle.com/florida/crimes/856.021.html) at best though. ::world’s tiniest violin:: He may get to plead to one of those types of charge. I can see **Oakminster** ’s point about the difficulty of getting a conviction for something like this - it may count as a sexual act because he said it was for purposes of sexual gratification, but the act wasn’t overtly sexual. That said, I’m feeling a distinct lack of sympathy. If you have something you are into sexually, do it with a partner who can consent and understands what’s going on. If your thing involves people not knowing you are getting off or being unable to consent to sexual involvement, you probably need help. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/18 "2012-05-08T04:29:52Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Repeatedly driving past children does not sound like pretty clear cut stalking. I believe the offender would have to have some malicious intent to be engaged in stalking and I don’t think asking kids to try on socks cuts it. I should’ve known better than to use a term that might have a legally defined meaning. I don’t know what category that behavior belongs in, but it does sound like the kind of stranger-danger-ing that could easily result in an arrest. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/19 "2012-05-08T06:38:40Z")
> [@Vicullum](#): > > Say I approached you in the street and asked you to do a cartwheel. Harmless, right? But then afterward you learn I have a fetish for cartwheels. Does that mean I just committed a sex crime? My sister was warned by the nuns in our parochial school specifically about this (also about climbing a ladder or tree) when a man was nearby. “There are bad men who want to look at little girls’ underpants.” And this was back in the 1960’s. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188/20 "2012-05-08T07:51:56Z")
Honestly, it just shows how otherwise completely intelligent people’s brains go to mush around children when sex is possibly involved. No one with a fucking sock fetish is going to be engaging in any actual harmful activity towards the kids. Staring at people does not hurt them. Having a foot fetish does not hurt people. Asking someone to do something weird does not hurt people. Masturbating in private to something that happened in public doesn’t hurt people. And a guy who fucking leaves when told to is not hurting people. I mean, I still the guy is stupid because of how our society promotes irrationality when it comes to children. But to act like charging him with a fucking felony makes sense, or, even worse, have someone show that they give absolutely no care for a fellow human being being improperly charged–Gah, it’s just so frustrating seeing how far the fight against ignorance still has to go. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-asking-girls-to-wear-socks-is-this-really-a-sex-crime/621188.md?page=2)