# Man arrested for taking picture **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 19, 2014, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735 "2014-05-19T15:31:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/41 "2014-05-19T23:02:13Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > They’re saying he’s being held for picture-taking, not trespassing. > > > [@](#): > > > > Political blogger Clayton Kelly was arrested Thursday, accused of **exploiting a vulnerable adult** and **illegally and improperly obtaining a photo of her without her consent for his own benefit** , according to the Madison Police Department. BTW could the phrasing be parsed as that they are two violations, or as that the illegal photography was an element or a modality of the exploitation? In either case, ISTM it’s not “taking a picture” per se that gets him in trouble, it’s doing so "improperly and without her consent ". Breaking into the facility (or entering peaceably but under false pretenses) and photographing a patient without the consent of her family or caregivers, probably puts him at odds with state laws for the protection of patients and of vulnerable adults, which would come under the allowable restrictions of time, place and manner on “speech”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/42 "2014-05-19T23:21:21Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I can’t find the Mississippi law they’re talking about, the story says he was “accused of exploiting a vulnerable adult and illegally and improperly obtaining a photo of her without her consent for his own benefit.” IANAL, but a Google search finds the “Mississippi Vulnerable Adults Act” which bars exploitation of vulnerable adults, and defines exploitation as “the illegal or improper use of a vulnerable adult or his resources for another’s profit or advantage, with or without the consent of the vulnerable adult, and includes acts committed pursuant to a power of attorney. “Exploitation” includes, but is not limited to, a single incident.” Taking this photo would appear to qualify, in my opinion as a layman. ---
**Author:** ![Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tastes_of_chocolate/32/3232_2.png) [@Tastes\_of\_Chocolate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tastes_of_Chocolate)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/43 "2014-05-19T23:28:35Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Have some common sense and just give a warning and tell him to not do this , and drop the charges. > > If its across a boundary it is slightly across a boundary , its the sort of boundary testing someone may do. > > Also he is a self-appointed journalist, so he may use a journalists defense, ‘public interest’ and so on. If I found out that someone was gaining unauthorized access to a nursing home where my parent was staying, and taking pictures so that they could publish them, **hell no** would I want the charges dropped with a warning. Even more so than if someone entered my house without an invitation, to do the same. I’d be pressing for any and all charges that might possibly stick. As an able bodied person of sound mind, I am better able to protect myself and my interests or deal with the outcome. A relative in a nursing home is much less capable. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/44 "2014-05-20T00:08:32Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > No, it doesn’t matter. If he trespassed, let him be prosecuted for trespassing. If he broke in, let him be prosecuted for that. But the story says he was arrested for taking a picture. Which is what I’m asking about. An over-simplification by you, not CNN. They explained the situation within the space they had clearly enough for most any reader to follow it. > [@](#): > > I can’t find the Mississippi law they’re talking about, the story says he was “accused of exploiting a vulnerable adult and illegally and improperly obtaining a photo of her without her consent for his own benefit.” Think about what it says and the situation. He entered a private facility where he had no business, ie: he neither works there nor has a family member to visit. Criminal trespassing right off the bat. I assume that is illegal in Mississippi. Next, a person confined for some years to a nursing home because of dementia is pretty much a classic example of a person who cannot give consent, if he even asked her permission. And he exploited this poor, sick, old lady for his own benefit because he wants the photo to help the candidate he endorses. Utterly loathsome. > [@](#): > > Most of that is gobble-gook. For example: what’s illegal is defined by the law. It might as well say “it’s illegal to do something illegal.” Oh, goody! You discovered a tautology! So what? The law mostly seems like gobbledygook to non-lawyers. Somebody above said you are a lawyer–is that true? Which state licensed you? I need to know so I don’t move there. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/45 "2014-05-20T00:24:06Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > IANAL, but a Google search finds the “Mississippi Vulnerable Adults Act” which bars exploitation of vulnerable adults, and defines exploitation as “the illegal or improper use of a vulnerable adult or his resources for another’s profit or advantage, with or without the consent of the vulnerable adult, and includes acts committed pursuant to a power of attorney. “Exploitation” includes, but is not limited to, a single incident.” Taking this photo would appear to qualify, in my opinion as a layman. If that is the actual definition, it sounds like it would be easy to apply inconsistently and/or use to pretense people that cops happen to disapprove of or want out of the neighborhood. What is “improper” in a specific circumstance? It already covers “illegal” things you might do to a vulnerable adult (presumably, like assault, rape, theft, or aggravated second degree mopery), but how do you determine what acts are “improper”, but otherwise legal (if not for the Vulnerable Adults Act)? E.g. when I was a kid, it was considered improper to “sass” elderly people. Is sassing grandma in order to get boasting rights that you talked back to an 80 year old enough to get you thrown in jail under this law? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/46 "2014-05-20T00:30:25Z")
[Privacy rights relevant to photography:](http://www.photoattorney.com/2005/09/rights-of-privacy-concerns-for.html) > [@](#): > > Rights of Privacy Concerns for Photographers … > > … Privacy rights can be subdivided into four areas. > > The first is “invasion of privacy” or “intrusion upon another’s seclusion.” It happens when someone actually intrudes a person’s private domain that would be considered offensive to the average person. As a photographer, the act of going on someone’s land without permission would violate this privacy. You don’t have to take the photo or publish the photo for the action to be unlawful. Some courts have found an invasion of privacy even when photographing someone in public. In those cases, the photographers harass their subjects, use hidden cameras, or wait for a woman’s skirt to be blown at a fun house. It also is unlawful to view and photograph people inside of residences or other places where privacy is expected (businesses are ok), even when the photographer is standing in public. … So yes, illegal to go where there an expectation of privacy and take a picture without permission. In a nursing home counts; in a locker room counts. IANAL but I think the person who wrote the article I linked to is. ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/47 "2014-05-20T00:34:57Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > Also he is a self-appointed journalist, so he may use a journalists defense, ‘public interest’ and so on. Are you referring to shield laws? They would be useless in this situation (and they don’t work as a blanket defense in any case, which your post appears to suggest). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/48 "2014-05-20T01:52:14Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > I can’t find the Mississippi law they’re talking about, the story says he was “accused of exploiting a vulnerable adult and illegally and improperly obtaining a photo of her without her consent for his own benefit.” I assume it’s the [Mississippi Vulnerable Adults Act](http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2010/title-43/47) of 1986. [Prohibition against abuse, neglect, or exploitation; penalties; relation to other laws.](http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2010/title-43/47/43-47-19/) > [@](#): > > b) Any person who willfully exploits a vulnerable adult, where the value of the exploitation is less than Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00), shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine not to exceed Five Thousand Dollars ($5,000.00) or by imprisonment not to exceed one (1) year in the county jail, or by both such fine and imprisonment; where the value of the exploitation is Two Hundred Fifty Dollars ($250.00) or more, the person who exploits a vulnerable adult shall be guilty of a felony and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by imprisonment in the custody of the Department of Corrections for not more than ten (10) years. [Vulnerable Persons (Mississippi Attorney General’s Office)](http://www.ago.state.ms.us/divisions/vulnerable-adult-unit/) > [@](#): > > Who is a Vulnerable Person? > > Any person (children included) whose ability to perform the normal activities of daily living or to provide for his/her own are or protection is impaired due to a mental, emotional, physical or development disability or dysfunction, or brain damage or the infirmities of aging. This includes all residents or patients of a care facility. > [@](#): > > What is exploitation? > > The illegal or improper use of a vulnerable person or his or her resources for another’s profit or advantage with or without consent of the vulnerable person, and includes acts committed pursuant to a power of attorney This took about 20 seconds to find. ETA: I see that **Dewey Finn** posted some of this information previously. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/49 "2014-05-20T03:35:05Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > A crime where you don’t get caught is still a crime. Our justice system does seem to have some gaps or flaws in it, not sure how they could be addressed. Perhaps in a specific GD thread, but probably not. > [@Declan](#): > > Not to mention that the good stuff, is probably in Alaska now. The shells\* I have talked to seem to be of the opinion that at least the UFO and live space alien they had at Groom Lake were moved to Cheyenne Mountain in Colorado for better security. \*nut cases ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/50 "2014-05-20T03:55:10Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > If that is the actual definition, it sounds like it would be easy to apply inconsistently and/or use to pretense people that cops happen to disapprove of or want out of the neighborhood. What is “improper” in a specific circumstance? It already covers “illegal” things you might do to a vulnerable adult (presumably, like assault, rape, theft, or aggravated second degree mopery), but how do you determine what acts are “improper”, but otherwise legal (if not for the Vulnerable Adults Act)? E.g. when I was a kid, it was considered improper to “sass” elderly people. Is sassing grandma in order to get boasting rights that you talked back to an 80 year old enough to get you thrown in jail under this law? For the most part, we’re talking about situations where a caretaker (who may or may not be a family member) uses the vulnerable person’s money or property for the caretaker’s benefit. These are the sorts of things that a competent person is capable of consenting to- my mentally competent mother can allow me to write checks to myself on her checking account or allow my sister’s family to move in with her and support them from her resources. If she’s not competent and I make gifts to myself from her checking account or rent out the extra bedrooms in her house and keep the rent for myself,that’s a very different situation. It’s generally not going to be using the person (as it is in this case), but for an example, imagine an mentally not competent celebrity who is still in demand for personal appearances. If it’s the caretaker who profits, it’s exploitation. In this case, the taking the photo benefited the photographer , not the subject. It would have been different if he had been hired to take her portrait or even if he had taken the photo and given it to her rather than letting it be used in a political ad and a You tube video. ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/51 "2014-05-20T04:34:00Z")
This blog has a [copy of the initial police report](http://kingfish1935.blogspot.com/2014/05/madison-police-arrest-clayton-kelly-for.html). If you notice, it says “New Release” on the top and goes into the detail, which have already been discussed along with the fact that the investigation is ongoing. My belief is that a simple B&E would not have yielded a $100k bond or even detainment as nothing of tangible nature was taken, laws can be particular like that. Therefore, by invoking whatever act covers: > [@](#): > > “…exploiting a vulnerable adult and illegally and improperly obtaining a photo of her without her consent…” They can hold him on $100k bond. That is probably why. Also, if you read the CNN article, you find this: > [@](#): > > Police say Kelly broke into the facility and took the picture by Rose Cochran’s bedside. So, obviously, this and some additional charges will be pending. And, there are numerous news sites referencing the ongoing investigation to see who, if anyone, helped him. If someone helped him than it’s probably not B&E, maybe trespassing as he was not supposed to be there, but it could also not be trespassing if he was invited in by an employee? Depends on those local laws. When you go to this [specific PD web page](http://www.madisonthecity.com/policedepartment/crimereportmain.htm) they don’t have this weeks police report up yet. Seems to be a two-week delay, which would coincide with the transcription of a written report to computer, verified, etc. So, really, other than the “new release” we have nothing. It’s amazing how much spiel has been generated over the one paragraph news release. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/52 "2014-05-20T08:40:30Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I assume it’s the [Mississippi Vulnerable Adults Act](http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2010/title-43/47) of 1986. > > [Prohibition against abuse, neglect, or exploitation; penalties; relation to other laws.](http://law.justia.com/codes/mississippi/2010/title-43/47/43-47-19/) > > [Vulnerable Persons (Mississippi Attorney General’s Office)](http://www.ago.state.ms.us/divisions/vulnerable-adult-unit/) > > This took about 20 seconds to find. > > ETA: I see that **Dewey Finn** posted some of this information previously. So a vulnerable person is walking - or stumbling - through a park, and you take a picture of him. You’re saying - in Mississippi, at least - the seriousness of the crime depends on how much the photo’s worth? Suppose you only write a story about it. Does the length of the sentence depend on whether the story is any good? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/53 "2014-05-20T10:42:48Z")
Bear in mind news organizations are often somewhat imprecise whsn describing actual charges. The Washington Post, generally a good paper, frequently states someone was “charged with…” and then goes on to describe what that person DID, not necessarily the charge itself. I still recall my amusement when the Post reported a man had been charged with "crossing the White House fence with a prohibited weapon, " in this case, a katana. I seriously doubt there was a legal charge by that name. …and the first thing that leaps to mind is, with what weapons are you allowed to cross the White House fence? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/54 "2014-05-20T12:03:00Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > So a vulnerable person is walking - or stumbling - through a park, and you take a picture of him. If this were the case here, maybe the title “Man arrested for taking a picture” would have been appropriate. But this is awfully far afield from breaking and entering a vulnerable person’s home and taking her picture there. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/55 "2014-05-20T14:08:08Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > So a vulnerable person is walking - or stumbling - through a park, and you take a picture of him. You’re saying - in Mississippi, at least - the seriousness of the crime depends on how much the photo’s worth? > > Suppose you only write a story about it. Does the length of the sentence depend on whether the story is any good? I guess it depends if the photo itself qualifies as exploitation. you obviously can take pictures of a child in a park too (use caution, some parents and LEOs are not First-Amendment friendly). If the senile person or child is recognizable, if you are exposing them to pathos or ridicule or otherwise doing something that if it were a mentally capable person they would say “wait a minute, I don’t like that” - maybe you are exploiting them. A capable adult shuffling through the park in their underwear (or not) is able to know better. A photo of a dementia patient doing the same is probably exploitation since you are taking advantage of their disability, which seems to be what the law is aimed at, even if it is not clear. So, IANAL, but what’s exploitation? That’s up to a judge and jury. A photo essay on the need for compassion for the elderly? Maybe not. trying to shaft a candidate by taking an unauthorized picture of a drooling wife? Maybe. “Tell it to the judge”. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/56 "2014-05-20T14:17:14Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > So a vulnerable person is walking - or stumbling - through a park, and you take a picture of him. You’re saying - in Mississippi, at least - the seriousness of the crime depends on how much the photo’s worth? > > Suppose you only write a story about it. Does the length of the sentence depend on whether the story is any good? Didn’t they cover any of this shit in law school? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/57 "2014-05-20T14:27:50Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Bear in mind news organizations are often somewhat imprecise whsn describing actual charges. The Washington Post, generally a good paper, frequently states someone was “charged with…” and then goes on to describe what that person DID, not necessarily the charge itself. I still recall my amusement when the Post reported a man had been charged with "crossing the White House fence with a prohibited weapon, " in this case, a katana. I seriously doubt there was a legal charge by that name. …and the first thing that leaps to mind is, with what weapons are you allowed to cross the White House fence? Good point, and something similar to this is where a lot of those “crazy laws” articles come from. Oklahoma might have a general law saying that it is illegal to hunt any animal except for the animals listed in Title 6, Section 2.35. Then, you observe that Title 6, Section 2.35 does not include references to large sea animals that are unlikely to be found in the wild in Oklahoma. So you conclude that, “OMG did you know it’s illegal to hunt whales in Oklahoma?” It also might be illegal in Oklahoma to discharge a firearm from a vehicle except in self-defense or with a permit obtained from the local sheriff. Then you can observe that, “Hey, if you want to hunt deer in Oklahoma with an M1 tank, you need police permission first. Even with police permission, hunting whales from your M1 can get you sent to jail.” ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/58 "2014-05-20T14:49:41Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > So a vulnerable person is walking - or stumbling - through a park, and you take a picture of him. You’re saying - in Mississippi, at least - the seriousness of the crime depends on how much the photo’s worth? > > Suppose you only write a story about it. Does the length of the sentence depend on whether the story is any good? **Moderator Note** According to your OP, you were merely asking for information. Instead, you seem to want to dispute the basis of the law this individual was charged under. General Questions is for factual answers, and your question has been answered in factual terms. You don’t appear to like the answer. If you want to debate or speculate about the extent of the law, or pose hypotheticals, please start a new thread in Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/59 "2014-05-20T14:56:58Z")
You can argue English as opposed to legal definitions, but (IANAL) it seems to me that “exploit” in this context would be an offensive act. It seems to suggest gaining an advantage for yourself without significantly helping the person being exploited. This might include monetary gain, ridicule or insulting their dignity, or any number of reasons why your benefit is more their loss than their gain. For example, much as I agree with Michael Moore, his interview with Charlton Heston in _Bowling for Columbine_ was more of a cheap shot against a guy with Alzheimer’s, not an attempt to get a reasoned explanation of a pro-gun position. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735/60 "2014-05-20T15:14:48Z")
We can argue the wording here but it would just be speculation. I know in New Jersey when a new law comes out the state AG usually publishes guidelines as to how the law should be enforced. Although these guidelines are not secret they are often not easily found on the internet. And then the law is further modified by precedent with the wording of the statute rarely affected. Without a law library it is often hard for a layman or even an out of state lawyer to find those precedents. So what ifs about the statute are meaningless. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-for-taking-picture/688735.md?page=4)