# Man arrested in connection with ignoring "bag checker" at Circuit City **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863 "2007-09-03T00:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/61 "2007-09-03T06:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Okay, so how does it harm you? Or why would it be any more “injurious” from getting your bag checked going into a concert? Circuit City is assuming you to be a thief. Your concert hall is assuming you to be a Virginia Tech-style mass murderer. Wouldn’t the latter be more mentally damaging? Do you need to see a psychiatrist after going to a U2 concert to reassure you that you’re a good person? [/QUOTE] I take insults pretty hard. I generally avoid them as they cause me mental distress. I mean, what if I really am a criminal ? I think I am. I think we’re all criminals at heart. What the hell, I think I’ll just go rob somebody. Of course, when you purchase a ticket to an event like the concert, the ticket has the rules or tells you where to find the rules that you agree to by virtue of the purchase. Circuit City can do that too if they chose. But they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/62 "2007-09-03T06:13:25Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] Circuit City can do that too if they chose. But they don’t. [/QUOTE] Quothe myself: > [@Sage Rat](#): > > (assuming that they put up a warning on the front door that they will be using such a technique.) ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/63 "2007-09-03T06:13:46Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] There IS such a right: [Shopkeeper’s Privilege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper's_privilege). I am not too sure of how well the wiki article holds up, but ISTM that the CC employees may be held responsible for false imprisonment, although it’s pretty clear that more information is needed here, i.e. the point of view of CC. [/QUOTE] The problem I see here is “suspected shoplifters”. Circuit City is treating everyone as such. That kinda blows the whole argument. ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/64 "2007-09-03T06:15:08Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] Quothe myself: [/QUOTE] Yes., [QUOTE=IKNEWIT] But they don’t [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/65 "2007-09-03T06:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] The problem I see here is “suspected shoplifters”. Circuit City is treating everyone as such. That kinda blows the whole argument. [/QUOTE] That’s why I said more information was needed, and it also depends on how their court looks at it. Does refusing a receipt check at the exit comprise reasonable suspicion? That’s up to whoever hears the complaint, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/66 "2007-09-03T06:19:04Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] There IS such a right: [Shopkeeper’s Privilege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper's_privilege). I am not too sure of how well the wiki article holds up, but ISTM that the CC employees may be held responsible for false imprisonment, although it’s pretty clear that more information is needed here, i.e. the point of view of CC. [/QUOTE] I think that lawfully there’s no way for them to detain the customer, but I suspect that the store could report to the police anyone who left without going through the security check without getting in trouble. Circuit City could put cameras in the parking lot to capture license plate numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/67 "2007-09-03T06:23:40Z")
In case anyone is interested in the actual law… > [@](#): > > Ohio’s shopkeeper privilege, R.C. 2935.041, provides: > > “(A) A merchant, or his employee or agent, who has probable cause to believe that items offered for sale by a mercantile establishment have been unlawfully taken by a person, may, for the purposes set forth in division (C) of this section, detain the person in a reasonable manner for a reasonable length of time within the mercantile establishment or its immediate vicinity. > > * * * > > “(C) [A] merchant or his employee or agent \* \* \* may detain another person for any of the following purposes: > > “(1) To recover the property that is the subject of the unlawful taking, criminal mischief, or theft: > > “(2) To cause an arrest to be made by a peace officer; > > “(3) To obtain a warrant of arrest. > > “(D) [T]he merchant \* \* \* shall not search the person, search or seize any property belonging to the person detained without the person’s consent or use undue restraint upon the person detained.” Quoted in _Hodges v. Meijer, Inc._ 129 Ohio App.3d 318, 717 N.E.2d 806 Ohio App. 12 Dist.,1998. This is fun. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/68 "2007-09-03T06:23:51Z")
[QUOTE=Iknewit] Again, this is correct in theory but not so much in reality. [/quote] No. I am correct in both theory and practice. > [@](#): > > All kinds of places use SS# as identification. Telephone co., power co., etc. It is required by many states to get a drivers license. To obtain a SS card, you must present a birth certificate or copy. To obtain a duplictae card, again, you must _document_ your identity, not just know your info. So, lose your card, your birth certificate and license: Good luck. You are confusing (a) the social security number with the card itself and (b) what you wish to be the facts with the actual facts. > [@](#): > > To replace the lost Social Security card: > > Complete an Application For A Social Security Card (Form SS-5); and > Show us documents proving: > Age; and > Identity. > Take (or mail) your completed application and documents to your local Social Security office. > > [http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std\_adp.php?p\_faqid=251](http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=251) There are a number of other documents that I have which prove both my identity and my birth: my driver license, my passport, my military retiree identification card. It’s not all that hard. ---
**Author:** ![SSG\_Schwartz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SSG\_Schwartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSG_Schwartz)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/69 "2007-09-03T06:25:06Z")
This whole thread has inspired me to burn my receipt the next time I am at Wally World and am asked by the greeter to show a receipt. If you don’t hear from me for a few days, you know why. SSG Schwartz ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/70 "2007-09-03T06:27:01Z")
I wonder also how someone could consider it an arrestable offense for one party to an agreement to not follow that agreement. It would seem to me that the recourse for the other party would be in civil court. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/71 "2007-09-03T06:29:38Z")
Regardless of the law (which Supports Circuit City) everyone knows that these big box stores ask to check your receipt before you leave. If you don’t like that policy, don’t shop there. It’s not right to knowingly violate a store’s policy. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/72 "2007-09-03T06:30:08Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] In case anyone is interested in the actual law… Quoted in _Hodges v. Meijer, Inc._ 129 Ohio App.3d 318, 717 N.E.2d 806 Ohio App. 12 Dist.,1998. This is fun. [/QUOTE] Note that your cite says the merchant must have probable cause in order to detain. Refusing a search to police does not give them probable cause to search you, so how could refusing a search to a shop owner give them probable cause to search you? ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/73 "2007-09-03T06:33:19Z")
**Garfield226** , did you see post forty nine? I don’t think they are supporting the police, or the store. I think they are supporting the person who was arrested? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/74 "2007-09-03T06:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] No. I am correct in both theory and practice. [/QUOTE] No you’re not. [QUOTE=Monty] You are confusing (a) the social security number with the card itself and (b) what you wish to be the facts with the actual facts. [/QUOTE] The card is requested at the DMV before issuing a license in some states. The purpose of this is to _identify_ idividually from others with your same name. That’s the fact. It is used expressly as ID by many DMV offices. [QUOTE=Monty] There are a number of other documents that I have which prove both my identity and my birth: my driver license, my passport, my military retiree identification card. It’s not all that hard. [/QUOTE] You said: [QUOTE=Monty] If you know your personal information, you should have no problem with getting a replacement. [/QUOTE] That is not true. That’s all I was saying. I understand that you have other forms of ID but just _knowing_ your info is not enough. You must document ID to get a replacement card. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/75 "2007-09-03T06:35:31Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] I wonder also how someone could consider it an arrestable offense for one party to an agreement to not follow that agreement. It would seem to me that the recourse for the other party would be in civil court. [/QUOTE] The relevant precedent here, _Hodges v. Meijer, Inc._ is, indeed, a civil case. A woman was suspected of shoplifting some vacuum belts from a department store, and a couple of store employees took her to a back room and looked through all of her stuff for 20 mintues. She later sued for wrongful imprisonment and defamation (and, hilariously, her husband sued for loss of consortium). Her suit was summarily dismissed under the above-referenced “shopkeeper’s privilege” statute. > [@Garfield226](#): > > Note that your cite says the merchant must have probable cause in order to detain. Refusing a search to police does not give them probable cause to search you, so how could refusing a search to a shop owner give them probable cause to search you? Well, the question becomes, as someone said upthread: is a refusal to show your receipt ‘probable cause’? And the answer to that question probably depends on the judge you get. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/76 "2007-09-03T06:39:46Z")
I left out something. A child’s birth certificate is not sufficient to get the child an original social security card for the child either. The parent must present proof of the parent’s identity and, of course, state the relationship. In short, another person is attesting that the applicant (the minor) is as purported. The social security account, of course, is issued for the person. The account card, still, is not an identification card. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/77 "2007-09-03T06:41:29Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] The relevant precedent here, _Hodges v. Meijer, Inc._ is, indeed, a civil case. A woman was suspected of shoplifting some vacuum belts from a department store, and a couple of store employees took her to a back room and looked through all of her stuff for 20 mintues. She later sued for wrongful imprisonment and defamation (and, hilariously, her husband sued for loss of consortium). Her suit was summarily dismissed under the above-referenced “shopkeeper’s privilege” statute. [/QUOTE] I guess she shouldn’t’ve been shopping at noon. ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/78 "2007-09-03T06:43:27Z")
[QUOTE=Zabali\_Clawbane] **Garfield226** , did you see post forty nine? I don’t think they are supporting the police, or the store. I think they are supporting the person who was arrested? 😕 [/QUOTE] The more I look at this situation, the more wonderfully complicated it becomes. I’d support the guy in any criminal suit. The law is on his side vis a vis his ‘impeding a public offical’ charge. (or whatever the BS is that they say they’ll charge him with) But as far as any civil matters go, it looks like the law might come down on Circuit City’s side. But IANA judge. ETA: Normal IANAL disclaimers apply ---
**Author:** ![Iknewit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/4491bb/32.png) [@Iknewit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iknewit)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/79 "2007-09-03T06:47:27Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] I left out something. A child’s birth certificate is not sufficient to get the child an original social security card for the child either. The parent must present proof of the parent’s identity and, of course, state the relationship. In short, another person is attesting that the applicant (the minor) is as purported. The social security account, of course, is issued for the person. The account card, still, is not an identification card. [/QUOTE] I agree that it is not an identification card. However, many states require the actual card as proof of the number so that it may be used to identify you in the DMV data base. They are using it for this purpose despite it’s explicit direction not to. If that’s not use as identification, we’re at least using a different understanding of English. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/80 "2007-09-03T07:08:27Z")
It’s proof that the number you assert is attached to a particular name is, in fact, attached to that name. I’ll give you one guess why the military identification card can also function as proof of the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863.md?page=5)