# Man arrested in connection with ignoring "bag checker" at Circuit City **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2007, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863 "2007-09-03T00:50:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/101 "2007-09-03T13:27:46Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] So it doesn’t matter to you that, according to this precedent, you could be hauled off in handcuffs simply for walking down the street, if you’re unable to produce an ID which you are not legally required to possess, let alone show to a police officer? [/QUOTE] Please point out where I said that I thought the guy should be hauled off in handcuffs. I’m talking about the bag-checking, nothing else. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/102 "2007-09-03T13:31:36Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] The theory is that having someone check bags keeps a certain number of shoplifters and crooked employees from even trying. If the crooks eventually feel they don’t need to stop, just say “No thank you” and keep walking then stores will have to go to something else. [/QUOTE] Crooked employees? I should be forcibly restrained because the store has hired crooked employees? When I purchase something, an agreement has been reached. An exchange of money for goods or services has taken place. The items then belong to me, and absent a charge of theft, I am in no way compelled to prove it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/103 "2007-09-03T13:35:54Z")
[QUOTE=Queen Bruin] There IS such a right: [Shopkeeper’s Privilege](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shopkeeper's_privilege). I am not too sure of how well the wiki article holds up, but ISTM that the CC employees may be held responsible for false imprisonment, although it’s pretty clear that more information is needed here, i.e. the point of view of CC. [/QUOTE] Well that’s interesting. That certainly would seem to cover checking bags on the way out, except that it seems to require that someone is suspected of shoplifting and most customers leaving the store are not. However, once you’ve brushed by the person checking bags would that be enough reason to suspect and investigate by checking a bag? Seems like it would be. Stores are willing to find methods that are the least offensive for customers but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask customers to cooperate or at least be understanding of their position. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/104 "2007-09-03T13:41:06Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] In case anyone is interested in the actual law… Quoted in _Hodges v. Meijer, Inc._ 129 Ohio App.3d 318, 717 N.E.2d 806 Ohio App. 12 Dist.,1998. This is fun. [/QUOTE] What’s undue restraint. The CC employees were blocking the car and standing in the open door but not touching the person so I guess they were within the law. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/105 "2007-09-03T13:43:42Z")
[QUOTE=Garfield226] Note that your cite says the merchant must have probable cause in order to detain. Refusing a search to police does not give them probable cause to search you, so how could refusing a search to a shop owner give them probable cause to search you? [/QUOTE] Ahhhhhhhhhhh good point. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/106 "2007-09-03T13:44:03Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Please point out where I said that I thought the guy should be hauled off in handcuffs. I’m talking about the bag-checking, nothing else. [/QUOTE] Fair enough, you didn’t say that. Sorry. And in truth, normally if someone asks to check my bags at a store I don’t object - I am not a thief, I have nothing to hide. But I have found myself getting more and more annoyed, since no-one ever says “Oh, all seems in order sir. Sorry for falsely implying that you might be a criminal. Have a nice day!” I just hope I don’t ever hit the tipping point like Mr Righi. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/107 "2007-09-03T13:46:16Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] Fair enough, you didn’t say that. Sorry. [/quote] No probs. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/108 "2007-09-03T13:49:29Z")
Here’s a thought - suppose I were to insist on searching my buddies when they left my house after a visit, just to make sure they hadn’t stolen any of my property. I’m not sure about the legality of that, but it would certainly be the fastest way to ensure that I didn’t have many friends. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/109 "2007-09-03T13:50:44Z")
[QUOTE=DanBlather] The only reason I see to have someone check receipts at the door is to prevent cashiers from cheating by letting accomplices buy stuff for free or at reduced prices. Are they trying to prevent “customers” (i.e., people who just bought stuff) from stealing on the short walk from the cash register to the exit door? If so, they could just staple the bags shut. I think it is justifiable to object to being scrutinized to prevent a store’s own employees from stealing. [/QUOTE] The question for me is “What is the proper way to object?” The way the guy in the article did or by communicating with the store management and home office? ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/110 "2007-09-03T13:53:22Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] Here’s a thought - suppose I were to insist on searching my buddies when they left my house after a visit, just to make sure they hadn’t stolen any of my property. I’m not sure about the legality of that, but it would certainly be the fastest way to ensure that I didn’t have many friends. [/QUOTE] Yup, and if someone wants to stop going to Circuit City because of this policy, go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/111 "2007-09-03T13:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Yup, and if someone wants to stop going to Circuit City because of this policy, go right ahead. [/QUOTE] Indeed. But the question of the legality of CC employees actions is not trivial. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/112 "2007-09-03T14:03:58Z")
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead] And that’s how rights are eroded. [/QUOTE] I’m concerned about rights being eroded as well. It takes mutual consideration, communication and cooperation to prevent that. I don’t think that’s what this guy did. He could have explained his objection to the CC employees and not called 911. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/113 "2007-09-03T14:05:43Z")
Isn’t there a word for being detained against your will without any legal reason for the detainment? I think I’ve heard of cases where refusing to allow someone to leave when you have no lawful authority to detain them is referred to as kidnapping. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/114 "2007-09-03T14:14:34Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] I’m concerned about rights being eroded as well. It takes mutual consideration, communication and cooperation to prevent that. I don’t think that’s what this guy did. He could have explained his objection to the CC employees and not called 911. [/QUOTE] It seems to me he that articulated his position quite well to the employees, who were, in fact, preventing him from leaving. He called the police because he was being illegally restrained. All they had to do was get out of the way and no call would have been made. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/115 "2007-09-03T14:25:56Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] Ones that don’t matter. Like whatever imaginary right it was that vas “violated” in this case. Seriously, this guy could have done something easy and quick that hurts absolutely nobody and doesn’t matter at all, but instead he chose to make trouble for himself, his family, the store employees, a 911 operator and a police officer. Way to fight for your rights. If this little rebel ever complains about police response time, he becomes the biggest hypocrit since Jacques Chirac complained about Pakistani nuclear weapons testing. [/QUOTE] Ah, so according to you, being falsely accused of a crime is a right that doesn’t matter. I’m glad he “chose to make trouble for the store employees” over that. And I hope he gets to take the store to the cleaners if they don’t settle out of court. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/116 "2007-09-03T14:27:41Z")
Here’s a Texas statue defining unlawful restraint. [Cite.](http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.005.00.000020.00.htm) The pertinent bit : > [@](#): > > PENAL CODE > > CHAPTER 20. KIDNAPPING AND UNLAWFUL RESTRAINT > > ``` > § 20.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter: > (1) "Restrain" means to restrict a person's movements > > ``` > > without consent, so as to interfere substantially with the person’s > liberty, by moving the person from one place to another or by > confining the person. Restraint is “without consent” if it is > accomplished by: > (A) force, intimidation, or deception; ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/117 "2007-09-03T14:39:56Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] Ah, so according to you, being falsely accused of a crime is a right that doesn’t matter. [/QUOTE] I was unaware that wanting to check someone’s bag is falsely accusing them of a crime. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/118 "2007-09-03T14:41:40Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] I’m concerned about rights being eroded as well. It takes mutual consideration, communication and cooperation to prevent that. I don’t think that’s what this guy did. He could have explained his objection to the CC employees and not called 911. [/QUOTE] He called 911 because he (and his family) were being illegally restrained in a parking lot. He was not charged with any offence relating to his refusal to submit to a search by CC employees. In fact, the only thing he _was_ charged with was based on highly dubious grounds, to say the least. He did explain his position to CC staff, who asserted a legal right that, it seems, they did not have. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/119 "2007-09-03T14:44:11Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I was unaware that wanting to check someone’s bag is falsely accusing them of a crime. [/QUOTE] Legally, I don’t know - IANAL. Morally, yes - absent any probable cause to believe he had stolen something, it does amount to a false accusation of theft. Let’s remember that, once he paid at the checkout, the goods were his. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2007, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863/120 "2007-09-03T14:46:49Z")
[QUOTE=Priceguy] I was unaware that wanting to check someone’s bag is falsely accusing them of a crime. [/QUOTE] What other reason is there, other than they suspect that you may have stolen something? Surely they would not check the bag if they \*knew \*there were no stolen goods inside. What if they demanded to see the receipt for the brand new sneakers on your feet? Would you go home and bring it back to them? Absent prior consent, as in the Costco example, customers are under no obligation to help out the store with its security problems. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-arrested-in-connection-with-ignoring-bag-checker-at-circuit-city/417863.md?page=7)