[QUOTE=Iknewit]
As far as I know, all states require the filing of a birth certificate within 6 weeks of the birth of a child.
[/QUOTE]
My Father was born at home and the birth was not attended by a physician. A physician filled out a birth certificate upon visiting the town or homestead some two weeks afterwards.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Actually, all US citizens are required to have an identification within 6 weeks of birth. It’s called a birth certificate and you must have one by law for the simple reason that you exist.
[/QUOTE]
No.
The fact of your birth must be registered with the appropriate authorities, but you are not required (as far as I know) to carry proof that you were born as you go about your daily business.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Also, can you explain how a US citizen can be denied the right to employment for failing to provide a voluntary enrollment in Social Security ?
[/QUOTE]
Can you point me to the statute or constitutional clause that guarantees all Americans the “right to employment”?
As far as I know, private enterprises can still decide who they wish to hire as long as they don’t violate Title VII. Any non-governmental agency in this country is free to demand identification before they hire someone. Freedom cuts both ways, you know.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
No.
The fact of your birth must be registered with the appropriate authorities, but you are not required (as far as I know) to carry proof that you were born as you go about your daily business.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t claim that you must carry a birth certificate, only that law requires that you be identified after your birth.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
I’ve posted in that thread. I am strongly opposed to any form of national ID cards.
And no, I can’t answer your Social Security question. I didn’t realise that one could be denied employment for failing to register in a voluntary program.
[/QUOTE]
“Unless specifically exempt by law, everyone working in the United States is required to pay Social Security taxes on earnings from employment. These earnings are subject to Social Security tax without regard to the citizenship or place of residence of either the employer or the employee.”
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
I don’t claim that you must carry a birth certificate, only that law requires that you be identified after your birth.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, you must be identified. As you were identified at birth. All that a birth cert proves is that someone was born. It is not ID.
But the discussion has been about whether someone can be arrested for failing to provide ID. I submit that they should not be arrested, based on the idea that there is no requirement for US citizens to even possess ID, let alone carry it.
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer]
Can you point me to the statute or constitutional clause that guarantees all Americans the “right to employment”?
As far as I know, private enterprises can still decide who they wish to hire as long as they don’t violate Title VII. Any non-governmental agency in this country is free to demand identification before they hire someone. Freedom cuts both ways, you know.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t dispute amy employers decision to hire whom they see fit nor the request for identification. Simply put, if you do not have a SS#, the government will force you from your job sooner or later, as you are required to pay SS if you work. And the right to work would probably fall under the whole premise of that “Life, Liberty and the pusuit of happiness” thing.
I am always amused when I hear about someone doing this.
My question is: Why don’t people assume this is part of the checking out process?
As long as I am still in THEIR store, what is the big deal if there is another person at the exit that double checks my bags?
That’s from your link. A strange definition of a “voluntary” program.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
Yes, you must be identified. As you were identified at birth. All that a birth cert proves is that someone was born. It is not ID.
But the discussion has been about whether someone can be arrested for failing to provide ID. I submit that they should not be arrested, based on the idea that there is no requirement for US citizens to even possess ID, let alone carry it.
[/QUOTE]
Not quite. A birth certificate establishes your name, gender, mother, father, time and place of birth, race (I’m sure this is not done in someplaces nowdays) and usually your foot prints or hand prints.
I’d say that’s a pretty darn good ID.
[QUOTE=MrDantastic]
I am always amused when I hear about someone doing this.
My question is: Why don’t people assume this is part of the checking out process?
As long as I am still in THEIR store, what is the big deal if there is another person at the exit that double checks my bags?
[/QUOTE]
Because once you have paid for the goods, they are yours, not theirs.
And because it’s lousy customer service to assume your customers are criminals.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
That’s from your link. A strange definition of a “voluntary” program.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. However, the SS adminstration maintains that it is a voluntary program. And it really is. You just can’t work, open a bank account, leave the country legally…etc.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
Not quite. A birth certificate establishes your name, gender, mother, father, time and place of birth, race (I’m sure this is not done in someplaces nowdays) and usually your foot prints or hand prints.
I’d say that’s a pretty darn good ID.
[/QUOTE]
Well, try offering it to a police officer.
I had a brother. He has a birth cert in the UK (similar-ish rules). He also has a death certificate. This proves nothing, and isn’t the same as demanding ID from people who are committing no crime.
My assertion? There is no law requiring Americans to have ID. Thus, it cannot be a crime to fail to produce said ID if a police officer asks for it.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
Because once you have paid for the goods, they are yours, not theirs.
And because it’s lousy customer service to assume your customers are criminals.
[/QUOTE]
When a clerk checks my money with one of those counterfiet markers, I usually ask if I can use it and then proceed to check the bills he or she gives back to me. The look on their face is priceless. How dare I think they might be giving me funny money !
Here is a good idea: When you go to Circuit City, ask to see their shipping records and paid invoices for the merchandise before you purchase it. You know, just to make sure they paid for it. You wouldn’t want to be in possesion of stolen merchandise, after all.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
…race (I’m sure this is not done in someplaces nowdays)
[/QUOTE]
What do you mean “nowadays?” I was born in 1965, in Albany NY. My birth certificate says nothing about my race. No foot- or handprints, either.
[QUOTE=PaulParkhead]
Well, try offering it to a police officer.
I had a brother. He has a birth cert in the UK (similar-ish rules). He also has a death certificate. This proves nothing, and isn’t the same as demanding ID from people who are committing no crime.
My assertion? There is no law requiring Americans to have ID. Thus, it cannot be a crime to fail to produce said ID if a police officer asks for it.
[/QUOTE]
I see where you are going but a birth certificate is a required piece of identification. Without it, you get no SS#, no license, nothing. It is your first and original ID. Required by law.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
I don’t dispute amy employers decision to hire whom they see fit nor the request for identification. Simply put, if you do not have a SS#, the government will force you from your job sooner or later, as you are required to pay SS if you work. And the right to work would probably fall under the whole premise of that “Life, Liberty and the pusuit of happiness” thing.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, I see we are mutually wooshing each other here.
If the federal government guaranteed all its citizens a constitutional “right to work,” then if some bum off the street wandered drunkenly into any government building and demanded a job, they’d be required to give him one if he were unemployed at the time.
What you’re saying is that the government has no right to prevent employment, a subtle yet important distinction. And while the bright-eyed libertarian in me agrees with you, there are some practical problems with this concept.
[QUOTE=Iknewit]
I agree. However, the SS adminstration maintains that it is a voluntary program. And it really is. You just can’t work, open a bank account, leave the country legally…etc.
[/QUOTE]
Another reason to be opposed to “voluntary” ID, then.
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.]
What do you mean “nowadays?” I was born in 1965, in Albany NY. My birth certificate says nothing about my race. No foot- or handprints, either.
[/QUOTE]
Mine does. I’m sure some of the information varies from state to state, even county to county. My offical certificate does not have the foot prints on it, I think that was just a hospital thing. The official one does however, have not my race, but my mother and fathers race listed as “white”. Hmmm…what does that make me ?
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer]
Ah, I see we are mutually wooshing each other here.
If the federal government guaranteed all its citizens a constitutional “right to work,” then if some bum off the street wandered drunkenly into any government building and demanded a job, they’d be required to give him one if he were unemployed at the time.
What you’re saying is that the government has no right to prevent employment, a subtle yet important distinction. And while the bright-eyed libertarian in me agrees with you, there are some practical problems with this concept.
[/QUOTE]
That was a poor choice of phrase and I agree with your correction.