Man arrested in connection with ignoring "bag checker" at Circuit City

Great Debates
461

Seems ridiculous to argue that the employees were not ‘detaining’ him by intent and in fact. Were they merely standing around the car, smoking cigarettes and watching the clouds go by?

But, since they clearly were in no hurry to call the police (that being the only legitimate reason for a detention by store employees who suspect theft) what was their purpose? To intimidate? Or to await some sort of epiphany to overcome Righi?

As a response, as has been noted upthread, driving forward or backward would have been an aggressive action, a potentially dangerous action, and probably an assault even absent bumper-on-shin.

Righi did the only correct thing; he called the cops to complain about an illegal detainment. He should prevail at bar; the cop, and the store, should not.

IANAL

462

[QUOTE=Bill Door]
Do you really think that’s why they check? Tell you what, the next time you visit a store where thay check your receipt at the door, conceal a purchased (and paid for) item in your pocket. When the door guy checks your receipt, see if he says “Wait a minute, you don’t have your copy of Tiger Beat that you paid for”. Let me know how it works out.
[/QUOTE]

Like last week when they found my missing memory card under the credit card scanner?

463

Yes, I think he was unlawfully detained. If 8 big biker type dudes surround you but don’t touch you, you are being “held” against your will. BUt let’s not miss the forest for the trees here. I went back and read the OP’s link and don’t think anyone should miss certain information in the asshole’s—oops, sorry, the ASSHOLE’S—own account of the incident:

[QUOTE=ASSHOLE]
Shortly after arriving we packed** the whole family into my father’s Buick **and headed off to the grocery store to buy some ingredients to make monkeybread. (It’s my little sister’s birthday today and that was her cute/bizare birthday request.)

Next to the grocery store was a Circuit City.

<snip>

I closed the door and as my father was just about to pull away the manager, Joe, yelled for us to stop. **Of course I knew what this was about, but I played dumb **and pretended that I didn’t know what the problem was.

<snip>

My three siblings sat in the back of the Buick crying their eyes out, which is the only part of today that I regret. I wish my little brother and sisters didn’t have to watch this, but I knew exactly what I was doing and was very careful with my words. Other than putting my family through a little scare I don’t regret anything that happened today.

[/QUOTE]

(bolding mine)

So, the asshole, knew there’d probably be a problem, as he seems to have researched this and was “very careful with his words” and knew the law. Yet he chose THAT DAY, a day with his family, his little sister’s birthday, with his three younger siblngs and dad in the car heading back to a birthday party to take his big, brave, stance against THE MAN.

I take back what I said about this guy wearing an asshole T-shirt, or having it tatooed on. It should be CHISLED into his forehead.

He wishes his little brother and sisters didn’t have to watch the whole mess? WOW, only if there possibly been some way for them to not have to have been exposed to that. Well I guess, NOTHING would have avoided that exposure, The tears, the ruined birthday. Nothing at all. Wait…except, maybe…taking five seconds out of your asshole life and OPENING THE FUCKING BAG!

B-b-b-but, he didn’t have to open the bag…the law says…wha, wha, wha… Well, the law of not being an asshole says that if you want to make what you view is a principled stand over some issue the size of a broken paperclip, you do it so YOU are the only one that is inconvenienced.

So, sis. Happy birthday! Sorry about ruining your day, but at least you got something to go with your Monkeybread—a monkey’s asshole for a brother.

I can only imagine my fathers response when I got home after pulling a stunt like that. Hopefully, the education did take place.

464

Interesting. If it were my son I’d probably back him up 100%. Then again, I’m not trying to raise my children to “go along to get along”.

465

[QUOTE=magellan01]
So, the asshole, knew there’d probably be a problem, as he seems to have researched this and was “very careful with his words” and knew the law. Yet he chose THAT DAY, a day with his family, his little sister’s birthday, with his three younger siblngs and dad in the car heading back to a birthday party to take his big, brave, stance against THE MAN.
[/QUOTE]
They chose that day to single him out for an attempt at an illegal search and detention. Had they not done so, none of it would have happened.

466

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
They chose that day to single him out for an attempt at an illegal search and detention. Had they not done so, none of it would have happened.
[/QUOTE]

Oh give me a break. The policy didn’t start that day. The kid obvioulsy knew about the policy and had researched it some. And please show that they “singled him out”—that they let customer after customer pass through without looking into their bags. And look, if kid was alone I’d be a lot more sympathetic to him. If he thinks the whole ordeal is worth the hassle to him, I can even admire that. I have more of a little of that gene myself. But his dad was picking him up. And there’s the whole birthday/siblings issue raised in post above. And just because the store and the cop may have been in the wrong doesn’t mean what the kid did was right and not assholish. They’re both guilty, through different metrics.

467

[QUOTE=magellan01]
…They’re both guilty, through different metrics.
[/QUOTE]

Can’t buy this. It assumes that the rights of the kid to the privacy of his possessions is equal to, or even less than, the right of the store to demand compliance with a policy that is not stated in any purchase contract.

By what metric is this so?

468

A short note to the people who advised moving the car forward slowly to “herd” the store employee out of the way. It’s probably not a good idea. They didn’t seem like the type of people who would just shrug and go about their business. They seemed like the kind of people who would call the police and report that a thief had just walked out of the store. Then you’ve got an officer, probably nervous as hell and misinformed by Circuit City employees, finding your car and doing a stop in traffic, and approaching it knowing only what the CC employees said, maybe that you were a desperate fugitive who tried to run over their security personnel.

Cops don’t want to shoot an innocent person, but they don’t want to go home dead either. Try to avoid giving the cop that choice. If you don’t plan to roll over for the Circuit City Rent-a-Cops staying and waiting for the police is the only sensible thing to do.

469

[QUOTE=magellan01]
And just because the store and the cop may have been in the wrong doesn’t mean what the kid did was right and not assholish. They’re both guilty, through different metrics.
[/QUOTE]
No, it doesn’t *mean *it. As it happens though, they *were *in the wrong, and he was *well within *his rights. And, if I am being unlawfully detained, and accused of a crime without probable cause, then all bets are off as to what constitutes “asshole” behavior. You push me, I’m pushing back hard.

470

Why don’t you just stand there while I punch you in the face? It will only take a second and there won’t be any permanent damage. The sooner you let me do it, the sooner you can go back to your kid sister’s party. If you try to resist, your wittle sister might get upset and cry on her wittle birthday. So, think of your sister, don’t be an asshole, and just take it.

471

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
Can’t buy this. It assumes that the rights of the kid to the privacy of his possessions is equal to, or even less than, the right of the store to demand compliance with a policy that is not stated in any purchase contract.

By what metric is this so?
[/QUOTE]

No, that’s not what I meant at all. The metric by which the store was in the wrong is the legal metric: the law. The metric by which the kid was a complete fucking asshole is common consideration for others. His dad was driving, his little brother and two little sisters, one of whom was celebrating a birthday, were in the car. I don’t know about you, but I take into account how my actions might effect those around me, particularly those I care for. I used to ride a motorcycle. When I was alone on it I was pretty nutty. But when someone was on the back, I was the safest driver imaginable. Have you never let anything slide because soemone was with you who you didn’t want to put through what you might be willing to put yourself through alone? I know that’s happened to me plenty.

472

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
No, it doesn’t *mean *it. As it happens though, they *were *in the wrong, and he was *well within *his rights. And, if I am being unlawfully detained, and accused of a crime without probable cause, then all bets are off as to what constitutes “asshole” behavior. You push me, I’m pushing back hard.
[/QUOTE]

Well, maybe if I was as much a tough guy as you are… :rolleyes:

473

[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
Why don’t you just stand there while I punch you in the face? It will only take a second and there won’t be any permanent damage. The sooner you let me do it, the sooner you can go back to your kid sister’s party. If you try to resist, your wittle sister might get upset and cry on her wittle birthday. So, think of your sister, don’t be an asshole, and just take it.
[/QUOTE]

Ohboyohboyohboy… Sigh. If that happened it would be a completely different situation, one where we’d probably be in complete agreement. But that’s NOT what happened. Sheezus! How about if the security guard got the guy in a full-nelson and the manager came over and peed in the guys eyes than slapped him all about the face with his dick, is he just supposed to kneel there and TAKE IT!!! Huh? Huh? Huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The word you might want to keep in mind is “perspective”.

474

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Ohboyohboyohboy… Sigh. If that happened it would be a completely different situation, one where we’d probably be in complete agreement. But that’s NOT what happened. Sheezus! How about if the security guard got the guy in a full-nelson and the manager came over and peed in the guys eyes than slapped him all about the face with his dick, is he just supposed to kneel there and TAKE IT!!! Huh? Huh? Huh? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The word you might want to keep in mind is “perspective”.
[/QUOTE]

Nice retort. :smiley:

475

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Well, maybe if I was as much a tough guy as you are… :rolleyes:
[/QUOTE]
It’s not about being tough. It’s about standing for what’s right. I go out of my way not to inconvenience anyone, but if someone comes up and (figuratively) smacks me for no reason they get smacked back triple. Same for literally, I guess, but that hasn’t happened in thirty years.

476

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
It’s not about being tough. It’s about standing for what’s right. I go out of my way not to inconvenience anyone, but if someone comes up and (figuratively) smacks me for no reason they get smacked back triple. Same for literally, I guess, but that hasn’t happened in thirty years.
[/QUOTE]

And if we were talking about someone getting macked here, we’d probably be in agreement. But tell me, haven’t you ever been ot with a woman—wife, friend, date, mother—and been bumped into or cut off or something like that, soomehting that you might have chosen to deal with more aggressively if you were alone, but didn’t because soemone else was there? I bet you have. I think we all have. So if I guy bumps into you a doesn’t apologize you might make an issue of it. But if your elderly aunt is with you, or your two-year-old kid, you might just swallow it and move on. No?

Please say yes to this.

477

[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
Nice retort. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]

I do what I can…

Thanks.

478

[QUOTE=magellan01]
And if we were talking about someone getting macked here, we’d probably be in agreement.
[/QUOTE]
I said figuratively.

Honestly? If someone bumps into me I assume it is a mistake. If they do it again, …

And I do drive more carefully when my dog is in the car. (Mother? Dead. Girlfriend? Traded up. Aunt? 3000 miles away.) And this tells me that I probably should behave that way all the time. But what of it?I f I had a date, and she was waiting in the car, and some jackleg security guard wannabe stopped me illegally, I would still break his balls. Better she should find out sooner than later. Don’t fuck with me and I won’t fuck with you. It’s as simple as that. The upside to that, as far as she is concerned, is that I would defend her just as vigorously.

And bullies who hide behind Circuit City security badges get short shrift from me. I won’t be held hostage to social niceties when my rights are at stake.

479

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
And I do drive more carefully when my dog is in the car.
[/QUOTE]

Aha! Gotcha! You are a kind a considerate fellow. Now don’t let me have to make this point again.

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
Girlfriend? Traded up. Aunt? 3000 miles away.) And this tells me that I probably should behave that way all the time. But what of it?I f I had a date, and she was waiting in the car, and some jackleg security guard wannabe stopped me illegally, I would still break his balls. Better she should find out sooner than later. Don’t fuck with me and I won’t fuck with you. It’s as simple as that. The upside to that, as far as she is concerned, is that I would defend her just as vigorously.
[/QUOTE]

Granted, the girls on the pages of Maxim are smokin’ hot, but I’m not sure a magazine qualifies as “trading up”. :smiley:

[QUOTE=Contrapuntal]
And bullies who hide behind Circuit City security badges get short shrift from me. I won’t be held hostage to social niceties when my rights are at stake.
[/QUOTE]

Seriously,** Contra**, not every slight is equal. Not every imposition on you is the same. Not every encroachment into your rights warrants making a federal case out of it. Or even a local one.

And may I suggest a nice soothing Cammomile.

480

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Granted, the girls on the pages of Maxim are smokin’ hot, but I’m not sure a magazine qualifies as “trading up”. :smiley:
[/QUOTE]
Sorry. You missed the parallel construction. Mother? Gone. Aunt? Gone. Girlfriend? Gone.
She’s the one who traded up, not me. He’s a lawyer. And, apparently, immune to her crazy.

She and I are still best of friends, FWIW.