Man arrested in connection with ignoring "bag checker" at Circuit City

[Stan_Shmenge]

From reading his website, I conclude he’s a dick. Evidence:

Having forgotten that it was my sister’s birthday I decided to run in and buy her a last minute gift. I settled on Disney’s “Cars” game for the Nintendo Wii. I also needed to purchase a Power Squid surge protector which I paid for separately with my business credit card.

• forgot Sister’s birthday
• got her a crappy game
• held up line to claim a $20 tax deduction
  Further, he is a dick everywhere he goes. Evidence:

I, a U.S. citizen and Circuit City customer am carrying out of the store. I’ve dealt with these scare tactics at other stores in the past including other Circuit Cities, Best Buys and Guitar Centers.

Look, Patrick Henry, I’m the guy behind you in the line you are holding up with your nonsense, and I gots business to transact. Please stay in western Pennsyania and eastern Ohio (aka North Appalachia) and don’t get in front of me at Best Buy should I be passing through.

However, I am not interested in living my life smoothly.

Well, then you keep on keepin’ on, Don Quixote! Let us all know how that works out for ya. Do you have a frigging job? How is it you have time to be Ralph Nader Jr.? Get a life, dude.

[cosmosdan]

[QUOTE=catsix]

You fail to acknowledge that there is a third valid option with respect to a voluntary bag search. That option is to say ‘No, thank you’.
[/QUOTE]

No I didn’t fail to acknowledge that.

Courtesy also dictates that you don’t try to force people t ocomply with a voluntary search.

Right. I’ve already conceded that the CC employees were wrong so you’re not telling me anything I haven’t already acknowledged.
Courtesy and consideration as part of the human interaction I was talking about, would have been a better choice for all concerned including Righi.

Because at no point whatsoever does searching his property ever become a matter of anything but his own choice.

While this is true, it has nothing to do with the point magellan01 and I have been making. He may be technically correct and still an asshole.

The only thing that I think Righi should’ve done differently was get in the car and let his father drive away. If he made a mistake, it was thinking he need to open the door and explain anything to the overzealous Circuit City employees who had no authority whatsoever to search or detain him.

You have every right to that opinion. I happen to disagree. You’re right. He didn’t need to stop or open the door at all. From reading his own words I don’t believe he did any explaining to them or planned on doing any. He stopped and opened the door specifically to press his point and thus began his participation in the situation escalating. The point isn’t whether he was in the right or not. It appears he was. The point I’ve been trying to make and magellan01 as well I believe, is that the manner he chose to make his point with, contributed in a negative way, to how the whole thing went down and how it affected those around him. He helped make a mt out of a mole hill while his siblings were crying in the car. So even being technically in the right, he’s still a dick IMHO.

No need to rehash it. If you don’t agree that’s fine. I think we’ve covered it enough. I’m still interested in what happens on the the 20th when he goes to court.

[Magiver]

[QUOTE=Happy Wanderer]
From reading his website, I conclude he’s a dick. Evidence:

• forgot Sister’s birthday
• got her a crappy game
• held up line to claim a $20 tax deduction
  [/QUOTE]

 He showed up the day of her birthday so he didn’t’ forget it
 Your opinion of the game is meaningless to the discussion.
 There is no indication that he held up the line using 2 forms of monetary exchange. There is, however, another line to stand in prior to leaving the store and it involves checking bags.

[magellan01]

[QUOTE=Magiver]
? He showed up the day of her birthday so he didn’t’ forget it
[/QUOTE]

Well, I’d hate to say that your wrong, but it seems the Mr. Righi disagrees with your assessment of what he did or didn’t forget. In his own words: (bolding mine)

[QUOTE=Asshole]
Next to the grocery store was a Circuit City. (The Brooklyn, Ohio Circuit City to be exact.) **Having forgotten that it was my sister’s birthday **I decided to run in and buy her a last minute gift.
[/QUOTE]

[magellan01]

[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
Is this it? Do I win the $1000?
[/QUOTE]

Partially. But I think that deserves payment of some sort. I’ll meet you with the cash at the Circuit City parkiing lot in Santa Rosa. Be warned though, I will ask to check you ID.

[Magiver]

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
I agree that name calling is inappropriate as our neighborhood mod has pointed out. I don’t believe either** magellan01** or myself ever maintained that the stores wishes are superior to the customers, so we can’t be expected to explain or justify a position we don’t hold. Correct? That also explains why you’ve read the thread twice and failed to find the answer.
[/QUOTE]
If you agree that the store’s position is not higher than a customer’s then Mr. Righi was in the same position as the store to express his wishes. That’s a logical progression of thought. He did this in a polite manner and moved on.

From that point on the store manager decided that the store policy was more important than the customer. There’s nothing polite in what he did. It was an escalation of something from nothing. In fact, it was ILLEGAL. What is Righi suppose to do when he’s blocked in by 2 employees? What do you think the manager would do if a customer blocked him in his office until satisfaction was rendered?

The logic is simple. 2 parties disagreed on the other’s wishes. One of them was polite and one of them broke the law.

I’ll ask again: why is Mr Righi an asshole? Or to be more specific, how does being polite about one’s rights make that person an asshole? What logical premise creates this line of thought?

[Bearflag70]

[QUOTE=magellan01]
Partially. But I think that deserves payment of some sort. I’ll meet you with the cash at the Circuit City parkiing lot in Santa Rosa. Be warned though, I will ask to check you ID.
[/QUOTE]

No cavity searches though. My wife would kill me.

[magellan01]

[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
No cavity searches though. My wife would kill me.
[/QUOTE]

Nice. Not that that was in any way an option. But nice.

[cosmosdan]

[QUOTE=Magiver]
If you agree that the store’s position is not higher than a customer’s then Mr. Righi was in the same position as the store to express his wishes. That’s a logical progression of thought. He did this in a polite manner and moved on.

From that point on the store manager decided that the store policy was more important than the customer. There’s nothing polite in what he did. It was an escalation of something from nothing. In fact, it was ILLEGAL. What is Righi suppose to do when he’s blocked in by 2 employees? What do you think the manager would do if a customer blocked him in his office until satisfaction was rendered?

The logic is simple. 2 parties disagreed on the other’s wishes. One of them was polite and one of them broke the law.

I’ll ask again: why is Mr Righi an asshole? Or to be more specific, how does being polite about one’s rights make that person an asshole? What logical premise creates this line of thought?
[/QUOTE]

The logic may seem simple to you but human interaction is not made up of just a logical thought process is it? It also contains emotion and attitude. It is in overall attitude reflected in his choices and his own words, that I think Righi, while technically correct, is still a dick.
It’s been explained enough. We don’t agree. No big deal.

[scotandrsn]

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
The logic may seem simple to you but human interaction is not made up of just a logical thought process is it? It also contains emotion and attitude. It is in overall attitude reflected in his choices and his own words, that I think Righi, while technically correct, is still a dick.
It’s been explained enough. We don’t agree. No big deal.
[/QUOTE]

Well, yes, but the emotion he seems to have displayed prior to the store representatives going way the hell past what he knew they had a legal right to do consisted of buying their goods and saying “No thank you” to a receipt check he knew was voluntary. The attitude of some in this thread is that you are a “dick” or an “asshole” if you decline to participate in a ritual that is optional but customary, and stand up for yourself when goons operate under the erroneous notion that it’s mandatory.

If someone were to start doing something to me that I know they don’t have a legal right to do, they too can expect some 'tude, and I wouldn’t be a dick or an asshole for giving it to them.

[Contrapuntal]

[QUOTE=scotandrsn]
If someone were to start doing something to me that I know they don’t have a legal right to do, they too can expect some 'tude, and I wouldn’t be a dick or an asshole for giving it to them.
[/QUOTE]
That sums it up for me. I am under no obligation to be polite to someone who is rude to me for no good reason,

[SkeptiJess]

I think Righi is a dick. In this context I define ‘dick’ as ‘a tiresome person who enjoys conflict.’ Him bing a dick doesn’t make him wrong, though. He does seem (by my reading of this long, long thread and all the links and attachments within) to have been within his rights to decline to show his receipt. The rest of it was just escalation on the part of all parties (Righi’s dick-a-tude seems to have been catching, as it so often is). I’ll be curious to see how it all plays out.

I have a friend who believes as Righi (and some of you in this thread) do about showing his receipt at the door of stores. But his method of dealing with it is, IMO, better than Righi’s. My friend, when asked to show his receipt at the door, just says, ‘No, thanks’ and motors past. According to him, most of the time the checker just lets him pass.

Once in a while, though, they attempt to detain him (verbally – he’s never had anyone grab him or anything). When this happens, he says, “OK. I’ll open my bag, but only to the most senior manager in the store.” Then he waits while the manager is called. Once the manager gets there, he opens the bag, shows his reciept and asks to place a formal complaint, in writing. Then he follows up at home with a phoned-in or emailed complaint to the corporate office.

Does this do any good? Don’t know. I do know he’s never been arrested, which puts him one up on Righi. And I also know that the nearby KMart, which used to have bag checkers at the door, no longer does. When I asked why they stopped, I was told it was “due to customer complaints.”

I also wanted to add that while Righi’s situation was probably stressful for him and the store personnel, it was probably quite entertaining for onlookers.

[cosmosdan]

[QUOTE=Jess]
I think Righi is a dick. In this context I define ‘dick’ as ‘a tiresome person who enjoys conflict.’ Him bing a dick doesn’t make him wrong, though. He does seem (by my reading of this long, long thread and all the links and attachments within) to have been within his rights to decline to show his receipt. The rest of it was just escalation on the part of all parties (Righi’s dick-a-tude seems to have been catching, as it so often is). I’ll be curious to see how it all plays out.

I have a friend who believes as Righi (and some of you in this thread) do about showing his receipt at the door of stores. But his method of dealing with it is, IMO, better than Righi’s. My friend, when asked to show his receipt at the door, just says, ‘No, thanks’ and motors past. According to him, most of the time the checker just lets him pass.

Once in a while, though, they attempt to detain him (verbally – he’s never had anyone grab him or anything). When this happens, he says, “OK. I’ll open my bag, but only to the most senior manager in the store.” Then he waits while the manager is called. Once the manager gets there, he opens the bag, shows his reciept and asks to place a formal complaint, in writing. Then he follows up at home with a phoned-in or emailed complaint to the corporate office.

Does this do any good? Don’t know. I do know he’s never been arrested, which puts him one up on Righi. And I also know that the nearby KMart, which used to have bag checkers at the door, no longer does. When I asked why they stopped, I was told it was “due to customer complaints.”

I also wanted to add that while Righi’s situation was probably stressful for him and the store personnel, it was probably quite entertaining for onlookers.
[/QUOTE]

Well there ya go. I think your friend has the right spin on it and has found a more reasonable way to protest the policy. IMO Righi could easily have done something similar and made an effective protest even though the CC employees were in the wrong. When he stubbornly refused and even called 911 while his siblings were crying in the car he consciously participated in escalating a minor situation. The attitude I get from his comments on his website is that it’s more about him being right and proving it, than it is about civil rights.

[cosmosdan]

I was just thinking about this and something occurred to me.

A few times a customer/ crook might buy something small and then slip something else in their bag as they are “looking around” Sometimes a customer will put their receipt in their pocket and walk out the door holding their merchandise in their hand.

I’ve asked to see customers receipts before when they are leaving with an item that’s not in a bag. Do those who object to bag checks think stores have a right to ask for receipts for items the customer is walking out with? Is the customer required to show us that the item they are holding is paid for or can they just say “No thank you” and keep on walking?

[catsix]

cosmosdan said:
I’ve asked to see customers receipts before when they are leaving with an item that’s not in a bag. Do those who object to bag checks think stores have a right to ask for receipts for items the customer is walking out with? Is the customer required to show us that the item they are holding is paid for or can they just say “No thank you” and keep on walking?

Once the money has been exchanged, the item is no longer ‘merchandise’ but ‘property’ and no, they’re not required to let you do anything.

[Bearflag70]

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
I was just thinking about this and something occurred to me.

A few times a customer/ crook might buy something small and then slip something else in their bag as they are “looking around” Sometimes a customer will put their receipt in their pocket and walk out the door holding their merchandise in their hand.

I’ve asked to see customers receipts before when they are leaving with an item that’s not in a bag. Do those who object to bag checks think stores have a right to ask for receipts for items the customer is walking out with? Is the customer required to show us that the item they are holding is paid for or can they just say “No thank you” and keep on walking?
[/QUOTE]

If the merchant has probable cause to suspect an item is being stolen, then the merchant may detain the customer long enough to conduct a reasonable investigation by searching the customer’s property but not the person.

[Contrapuntal]

[QUOTE=Bearflag70]
If the merchant has probable cause to suspect an item is being stolen, then the merchant may detain the customer long enough to conduct a reasonable investigation by searching the customer’s property but not the person.
[/QUOTE]
Thirteen pages of thread and, sadly, this still needs to be said. Absent probable cause, no search is allowed. If probable cause had existed in the linked situation, no one here would have protested.

[magellan01]

[QUOTE=cosmosdan]
I was just thinking about this and something occurred to me.

A few times a customer/ crook might buy something small and then slip something else in their bag as they are “looking around” Sometimes a customer will put their receipt in their pocket and walk out the door holding their merchandise in their hand.

I’ve asked to see customers receipts before when they are leaving with an item that’s not in a bag. Do those who object to bag checks think stores have a right to ask for receipts for items the customer is walking out with? Is the customer required to show us that the item they are holding is paid for or can they just say “No thank you” and keep on walking?
[/QUOTE]

This is interesting. Very often these days, with the environment in mind, I’m asked if I need a bag. If all I have is one item, I say no. So as I walk out the door I don’t even have a bag that shows I stopped at the register. A request for a receipt at this point seems ultimately reasonable. and there is no privacy issue. No one is trying to peer into a private life, just a peek at the receipt. Of course, there will be those who object to this reasonable request, too. I think I’ll have to start buying the T-shirts by the gross just so I can pass them out to all our worthy fellow citizens.

[catsix]

I thought the law in Ohio said they could detain and wait for the police, but the merchant does NOT have the right to do a search without the consent of the person even if shoplifting is suspected?

[Bearflag70]

[QUOTE=catsix]
I thought the law in Ohio said they could detain and wait for the police, but the merchant does NOT have the right to do a search without the consent of the person even if shoplifting is suspected?
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, I was referencing my understanding of California law. YMMV. As far the specific hypo posed, the answer is the same in that the merchant must have sufficient probable cause to justify detention.