# Man asked to give speech in honor of abusive-but-prestigious father. Should he? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 4, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696 "2011-05-04T14:51:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/21 "2011-05-04T23:26:34Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > There isn’t a “should” answer for this, just a what i would do. I’d tell them to fuck off. That would reflect poorly on YOU if no one else knew the dad was an abusive fuckwit. If no one knows, then a rude refusal would make you look like a particularly vile individual. In the OP, the world at large only knows the father as “Saint Simon”, healer and benefactor. A hearty “fuck you” would paint William in an extremely poor light, and any attempt at explaining that Saint Simon was really Tyrant Simon would probably not be believed. I would suggest politely declining and let the silence deafen the crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/22 "2011-05-04T23:33:19Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > This is impossible. Philanthropic cancer-fighting doctors do not beat their children to the point of physical bruising. Call me naive if you like, but I can’t suspend disbelief this far. My mother retired after a few decades working for child protective services under its various names over the years. Not only are wealthy professionals, be they doctors, lawyers, or dentists, capable of beating their children to the point of bruising, but I bet she could offer up some choice stories about broken bones, dislocated limbs, and permanent disability. Just because you’re an oncologist, doesn’t mean that you can’t have “issues.” Edit: Unless you mean, doctors can “hide it” better as far as being smart enough abuse so that no one can see. Even then, in a rage, it’s hard to remember not to leave a mark if you’re feeling smashy. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/23 "2011-05-04T23:37:04Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > Again, it’s not that I think philanthropists are incapable of sexual, emotional, or physical abuse of children. See my post above yours. I did. It is not a noticeable improvement over the first post. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/34f0e0/32.png) [@The\_Lovely\_Margo\_Lane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lovely_Margo_Lane)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/24 "2011-05-04T23:43:38Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I voted for “rudely decline the request” but it depends on who is making the request. Ann? I would feel so much rage towards her, protecting that shitheel of a husband all of these years, that I would be inclined to rudely decline to her. If it’s the organization, though, I’d politely decline. I’d probably also take the opportunity to tell my parents to go fuck themselves…in more words, of course. > > People are going to answer from their own experiences. Me, I grew up with that “reputation” shit. “What will the neighbors think?” I don’t fucking care what they think, mom. > > ETA: If I was asked to speak about my mom it would be a mixed bag. And I’d want to be honest. I will not go somewhere and butter her up. I’d tell both sides of the story. Or not tell them at all. I voted politely decline, but my reasoning was similar. The hospital doesn’t need to hear him air his dirty laundry\*, but they also aren’t entitled to press him to speak. They can draw any conclusion from the refusal they like. Perhaps the son is simply too emotional over his father’s death to speak about him in public. They don’t need to know what the emotions are. As for the mother, it’s far too much for her to ask. I feel that the silence she asked during Simon’s lifetime was also too much, but obvs William didn’t agree as he went along with it. Asking him to publicly lie (by ommission at the least) to bolster and enhance the reputation of his dead abuser is just out of the question. No one benefits (except perhaps her if you count enhancing ones delusions to be a benefit) and William is harmed. I believe we all have the right to set boundaries with those we love any were William to ask me (which he essentially has by existing in this poll) I’d say this is clearly an appropriate boundary to set with his mother. \*“dirty laundry” not in the sense that it’s shameful for him, just that at this late date there’s not much point in airing it out in public, especially as there’s a great possibility that he wouldn’t be believed. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/25 "2011-05-04T23:46:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I did. It is not a noticeable improvement over the first post. I’m willing to be proven wrong. But that’s much more likely with posts like the one Eats\_Crayons made than your rude gainsaying technique. And if you didn’t want to prove me wrong, then why did you post? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/26 "2011-05-04T23:49:09Z")
> [@Eats\_Crayons](#): > > My mother retired after a few decades working for child protective services under its various names over the years. Not only are wealthy professionals, be they doctors, lawyers, or dentists, capable of beating their children to the point of bruising, but I bet she could offer up some choice stories about broken bones, dislocated limbs, and permanent disability. Just because you’re an oncologist, doesn’t mean that you can’t have “issues.” > > Edit: Unless you mean, doctors can “hide it” better as far as being smart enough abuse so that no one can see. Even then, in a rage, it’s hard to remember not to leave a mark if you’re feeling smashy. I daresay there are many abusers who do not strike in rages, but rather in cold sadism, or a misguided (but still cold) belief that the beatings they are administering are for their victims’ good. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/27 "2011-05-04T23:50:02Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m willing to be proven wrong. But that’s much more likely with posts like the one Eats\_Crayons made than your rude gainsaying technique. > > And if you didn’t want to prove me wrong, then why did you post? Fine. [You’re wrong.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mengele) Happy now? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/28 "2011-05-05T00:05:44Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > AAAAAAnd the hypothetical train grinds to a screeching halt. This is impossible. Philanthropic cancer-fighting doctors do not beat their children to the point of physical bruising. Call me naive if you like, but I can’t suspend disbelief this far.. why not? What’s so special about a “cancer fighting doctor” that means it’s simply impossible for him to do such things to his children? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/29 "2011-05-05T00:07:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Fine. [You’re wrong.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mengele) > > Happy now? Ach. I have a somewhat less … epic … rebuttal. A smaller-scale evil, though there’s still very few persuasive reasons not to beat the guy to death with a hammer. Please think hard before clicking this link, as the story it tells cannot be called anything but horrifying: [spoiler] [Dr. Ian Gainov, a pediatrician no less.](http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=588708) A relevant quote: > [@](#): > > In her impassioned closing arguments, Assistant Common-wealth’s Attorney Cynthia R. Murray said that Gainov’s “delayed reporting and attempts to conceal or deceive pretty much everyone” were indicators of guilt. Gainov had waited several days to take Megan to a doctor both after a hairdryer burn Megan suffered in September and a skull fracture she suffered in December. When Megan was taken to the hospital with seizures in March, Gainov initially told physicians he had no idea how Megan had imbibed so much water. [/spoiler] Apropos of nothing, **rachellelogram** , where’d you get “cancer-fighting” from? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/30 "2011-05-05T00:45:14Z")
Tell both sides of the story. ---
**Author:** ![mac\_bolan00](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b3f665/32.png) [@mac\_bolan00](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mac_bolan00)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/31 "2011-05-05T01:04:44Z")
i would. but i would have preferred to square things with simon before he went. as i tell my young friends, understanding your father may be the last lesson you’ll get in your life. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/32 "2011-05-05T08:18:11Z")
> [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m willing to be proven wrong. But that’s much more likely with posts like the one Eats\_Crayons made than your rude gainsaying technique. > > And if you didn’t want to prove me wrong, then why did you post? Because you said something mind-numbingly stupid, and stupidity is called out on these boards. It accomplishes one of two things: making the person feel bad for saying it, and and hopefully not say something so stupid in the future, or getting people who can’t take it to leave. I’m not commenting on the morality of this. But I will say that I didn’t even consider **Miller** ’s comments to be rude within the board culture. And I’m one of the “senstive” ones. I’m pretty sure you’ve personally said worse. How the heck can you not see that claiming any section of humanity would never do X is stupid? You’re an abuse victim, and you don’t get that absolutely anyone can be an abuser? You can’t fathom the idea of someone being a doctor and having a violent temper? You can’t even imagine someone who became a doctor for the money and doesn’t give a crap about hurting people? No one should even need to provide a citation. The thought process you used to derive your conclusion is so riddled with holes that it should have fallen under its own weight. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/33 "2011-05-05T09:11:25Z")
I worked for a decade in male family violence programs. Doctors can be physically abusive of their children and partners, as can ‘pillars’ of the community in general. [http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/doctor-who-killed-wife-and-son-was-jealous-of-her-work-568661.html](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/doctor-who-killed-wife-and-son-was-jealous-of-her-work-568661.html) [http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-16/justice/oklahoma.child.slaying\_1\_oklahoma-county-wounds-oklahoma-city?\_s=PM:CRIME](http://articles.cnn.com/2009-11-16/justice/oklahoma.child.slaying_1_oklahoma-county-wounds-oklahoma-city?_s=PM:CRIME) > **[Montreal Gazette](https://montrealgazette.com/)** > > Read latest breaking news, updates, and headlines. Montreal Gazette offers information on latest national and international events & more. And finally: > **[Earl Bradley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Bradley)** > > Earl Brian Bradley (born May 10, 1953) is a former pediatrician from Lewes, Delaware and convicted serial child rapist. He was indicted in 2010 on 471 charges of molesting, raping, and exploiting 103 child patients (102 girls and 1 boy). Some of the victims were as young as three months old. He was charged in April 2010 with an additional 58 offenses in relation to the abuse of 24 additional victims. He has been described by a number of reputable news outlets and commentators as Bradley was born ... Can find more if you like, thats just from some quick googling. Obviously cases where murder occurred are much easier to find than ones ‘just’ involving long term physical abuse, where a court case may never even occur. Otara ---
**Author:** ![EvilTOJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@EvilTOJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilTOJ)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/34 "2011-05-05T09:23:35Z")
I’d decline the invitation, and I would tell the people asking exactly why I was declining. No child-abusing, wife beating sumbitch deserves to be lauded by his victims. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/35 "2011-05-05T09:54:19Z")
I grew up in a particularly insidious form of hell, called a “good Mormon” house, and spend a fortune on therapy to “good” I received there. My father was never ambitious enough / too fucked up to be capable of an achievement such as that, but if he were, I’d simply decline. I doubt that telling the organizers would serve to get them to change their mind. Without some sort of evidence, they may even take it as some sort of revenge for a petty disagreement. I think the best course would be to politely decline and let your silence speak for itself. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/36 "2011-05-05T12:30:11Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I daresay there are many abusers who do not strike in rages, but rather in cold sadism, or a misguided (but still cold) belief that the beatings they are administering are for their victims’ good. This is true. My mother has been retired for several years now, so I’ve heard no stories in quite a long time. I do however, remember her commenting that it seemed that a lot of abusive behaviour was from parents who actually had good intentions but were terribly, tragically inept. Most of what I remember her working on had more to do with child neglect, rather than outright abuse. For example, children whose parents were addicts or simply absent made up a bulk of day-to-day business at her office. However, when things were bad, it could be really bad, and by the 1990s there was a term along the lines of “post-traumatic stress by proxy” to describe some of the effects case workers at CPS were experiencing from having been exposed to suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Eats\_Crayons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Eats\_Crayons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eats_Crayons)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/37 "2011-05-05T12:43:50Z")
Phooey, missed the edit window. > [@rachelellogram](#): > > I’m willing to be proven wrong. If you look it up, substance abuse plays an enormous role in abuse cases. A quick Google provided as site that gave a figure of substance abuse playing a role in 81% of cases of “child maltreatment.” Medical professionals are still human and subject to the same vices, personal issues, and emotional baggage. I have no problem at all believing that a professional can behave himself at work and then turn into a nasty piece of work after he settles in to his post-office hours martinis at home. Alcohol can create quite the Jeckyll/Hyde effect and it makes no difference if you’re rich or poor, blue- or white-collar. ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/38 "2011-05-05T13:32:44Z")
Ignorance fought. 🙂 Thanks for the citations. ---
**Author:** ![inkling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkling)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696/39 "2011-05-05T15:16:27Z")
Back to the OP’s question: I think it depends a great deal on the social traditions the father and son (and their community) grew up in. Isn’t the idea in at least some cultures to speak honestly of the dead so that all their characteristics, both good and bad, can be remembered? “Simon Legree was a man subject to all the strengths and weaknesses all men share [optional comment here about Creators and their mysterious wisdom]. He was a doctor and a good one, curing those he could and showing compassion to those he could not help. He did like to bend his elbow a bit, though, and when he was in his cups, he had a temper that was sadly directed at his children and his wife. Let us celebrate the good things about his life and forgive the bad ones.” Edit: That seems more appropriate to the wake than the dedication of a medical facility, though. I guess I don’t have a clear answer to the original question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-asked-to-give-speech-in-honor-of-abusive-but-prestigious-father-should-he/580696.md?page=1)