# "Man-boy" films **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 8, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994 "2006-01-08T07:12:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/21 "2006-01-08T15:57:50Z")
[Van Wilder](http://imdb.com/title/tt0283111/) ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/22 "2006-01-08T19:19:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I am going to use a term coined by my GF - “Man-boy” - basically meaning a full grown adult male (usually mid 20s or older) who essentially acts like a juevenile and suffers from a kind of arrested development. [Ron Howard] Hey, that’s the name of the show! [/Ron Howard] ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/23 "2006-01-08T19:53:10Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I am going to use a term coined by my GF - “Man-boy” - basically meaning a full grown adult male (usually mid 20s or older) who essentially acts like a juevenile and suffers from a kind of arrested development. > > (…) > > So what’s the deal? Are all these movies a reflection of a Gen-X culture that never fully matured into adulthood? Or have there always been films like this, but I just haven’t seen any from before 1990? Such films seem to be a much beloved genre in America. I’ve even heard of a North American Man-Boy Love Association, which I presume consists of avid fans of this sort of movie. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/24 "2006-01-08T20:49:27Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Forrest Gump gives you permission not to give a damn; to just passively let whatever’s gonna happen, happen. It makes a virtue out of irresponsibility. It raises passive stupidity to a level of near-holiness. To me it feels like somehow like paean to the holy state of stupid-white-man-'ness; stupid white men are beloved of god. Forrest Gump was made to appeal to the slacker in all of us; I think it indulges the worst, the most amoral impulses that are the weakest part of the American character. I just think most of these other movies are thinner, shallower glosses on the same themes. 😕 But Forrest Gump is not a “slacker,” except in intellectual terms (i.e., he never questions the values he is taught). That’s the whole point of the story – that he works hard, takes on adult responsibilities and steers a steady course while more “intelligent” people are acting like children and latching on to every momentary fad. The really pernicious thing about _Forrest Gump,_ IMO, is that it presents a message that **virtue** is more important than **intelligence** – not on any abstract scale of values, but in terms of winning material rewards in life. And it ain’t. Gump seems to get success just because he’s a good guy and deserves it. He joins a church, sings in the choir, and the next hurricane sinks every shrimp boat in the harbor but his. IRL, a man like Gump would almost certainly go on trying and failing to wring a meager living out of the sea until his boat got repossessed. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/25 "2006-01-08T20:53:37Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > So what’s the deal? Are all these movies a reflection of a Gen-X culture that never fully matured into adulthood? Or have there always been films like this, but I just haven’t seen any from before 1990? I think the question is, have there always been **people** like this? I think not. Only in a very prosperous society can large numbers of people afford the luxury of arrested development. And it’s good thing we can! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/26 "2006-01-08T20:53:59Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The three supporting characters don’t act like BM or TB because they don’t come from wealthy families. But they are the same. They are around 30 years old. They can be characterized as a stoner, a playa’ and an emotionally immature man-child. None of them take their job seriously and retail store clerk is not a serious career anyway. Their entire life consists of drinking and hooking up. Like I said, maybe normal 20 somethings are considered man-boys to you. The supporting characters in 40 Year Old Virgin seemed very real to me. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/27 "2006-01-08T21:11:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’ve heard _Harold and Maude_ described in this way. I suppose _Jack_ also counts? I don’t think _Jack_ counts. He _was_ a child, who just looked like a man - wheras all the other characters in this thread were adults who acted like kids, he’s a kid that acts like a kid, but looks like an adult. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/28 "2006-01-08T21:20:41Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Forrest Gump gives you permission not to give a damn; to just passively let whatever’s gonna happen, happen. It makes a virtue out of irresponsibility. It raises passive stupidity to a level of near-holiness. To me it feels like somehow like paean to the holy state of stupid-white-man-'ness; stupid white men are beloved of god. Forrest Gump was made to appeal to the slacker in all of us; I think it indulges the worst, the most amoral impulses that are the weakest part of the American character. I just think most of these other movies are thinner, shallower glosses on the same themes. Were you watching the same movie I was? Gump is neither amoral nor a slacker. He is, in all honesty, quite the opposite; he’s fiercly loyal, invariably honest, totally responsible, and the hardest-working man on the screen. Even when he’s rich, he works. The point of the movie is really quite the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Gump symbolizes everything that’s GOOD about America; he’s successful, productive, honest, and family-oriented, and stays that way despite being buffeted from pillar to post by his times. BrainGlutton makes the point that the movie seems to place virtue above intelligence, but I’m not sure that’s the case. His alleged stupidity - and it’s really not clear that he’s as stupid as you might initially assume, given the fact that it’s everyone else pulling the real bonehead moves - is just a smokescreen. Much like America, which seems dumb to the snotty foreigner, what with its fast food and NASCAR and such, but if you look at the results it’s hard to argue there’s some big brains in there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/29 "2006-01-08T21:26:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > BrainGlutton makes the point that the movie seems to place virtue above intelligence, but I’m not sure that’s the case. His alleged stupidity - and it’s really not clear that he’s as stupid as you might initially assume, given the fact that it’s everyone else pulling the real bonehead moves - is just a smokescreen. Much like America, which seems dumb to the snotty foreigner, what with its fast food and NASCAR and such, but if you look at the results it’s hard to argue there’s some big brains in there. But, for a real-life Forrest Gump, the “results” would be nothing like how the movie portrays them. ---
**Author:** ![START](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@START](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/START)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/30 "2006-01-08T21:29:01Z")
Pee Wee Herman Movies 😃 ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/31 "2006-01-08T21:36:29Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Were you watching the same movie I was? > > Gump is neither amoral nor a slacker. He is, in all honesty, quite the opposite; he’s fiercly loyal, invariably honest, totally responsible, and the hardest-working man on the screen. Even when he’s rich, he works. > > The point of the movie is really quite the opposite of what you’re suggesting. Gump symbolizes everything that’s GOOD about America; he’s successful, productive, honest, and family-oriented, and stays that way despite being buffeted from pillar to post by his times… And wouldn’t it be a better world if were \*all \*retarded? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/32 "2006-01-08T21:48:51Z")
Just to show that man-boy comedies aren’t unique to American cinema, I give you Shaun, as in “Shaun of the Dead.” I loved that movie, in no small part because Austin is FILLED with guys exactly like him. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/33 "2006-01-08T21:54:46Z")
I agree that the message of _Forrest Gump_ is that being nice is more important than being smart, and the character benefits from a truly improbable series of strokes of good luck, implying that niceness will be rewarded. But I wouldn’t put this film in the same category of ones where the main characters are working hard at _not_ growing up because perpetual adolescence is easier. Forrest doesn’t understand most of what life throws at him, but he deals with it anyway. There’s no indication he wants to retreat into juvenile hedonism or drunkenness. After his mother dies, he goes on a cathartic cross-country jogging spree, stopping when the internal conflict is finally resolved. Characters in these other movies would just get stoned. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/34 "2006-01-08T22:17:01Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But, for a real-life Forrest Gump, the “results” would be nothing like how the movie portrays them. You’ve never met a successful dumbass? I’ve met lots. Forrest Gump is not a documentary about a real person; the character’s 90% metaphor. It’s not supposed to be a guide to personal success. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/35 "2006-01-08T22:21:02Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You’ve never met a successful dumbass? I’ve met lots. Me too. Usually they owe their success to inherited money/connections/opportunies. > [@RickJay](#): > > Forrest Gump is not a documentary about a real person; the character’s 90% metaphor. It’s not supposed to be a guide to personal success. But it **is** supposed to send a message. And it’s a false message. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/36 "2006-01-08T22:28:47Z")
Are you not including Jerry Lewis films, particularly the ones with Dean Martin? I know they aren’t exactly like the crop now, but in many of those his character certainly seems juvenile and in the 1955 film [_You’re Never Too Young_](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048822/) his character has to pretend he is a twelve year old boy. I don’t think this is really a new trend. Maybe a bit overdone these days but hardly new. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/37 "2006-01-08T22:35:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But it **is** supposed to send a message. And it’s a false message. But we disagree on what the message is, you see. You’re seeing a message to behaviour; I see allegory. The movie’s descriptive, not prescriptive. In any case, we agree it’s NOT a man-boy movie. I’d also exclude “Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle,” which is a distinctly different kind of movie, the stoner comedy. Harold and Kumar traces its roots to Cheech and Chong. Stoner comedies are their own classification entirely. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/38 "2006-01-08T22:42:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Forrest Gump is not a documentary about a real person; the character’s 90% metaphor. That’s precisely my problem: > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > he works hard, takes on adult responsibilities and steers a steady course while more “intelligent” people are acting like children and latching on to every momentary fad. See all the characters are fictional. All invented. The movie makes sure that not one “intelligent” (read: cabable of questioning authority) person is not shown to be either immoral, amoral or too screwed up to function morally. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/39 "2006-01-08T22:54:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’d also exclude “Harold and Kumar Go To White Castle,” which is a distinctly different kind of movie, the stoner comedy. Harold and Kumar traces its roots to Cheech and Chong. Stoner comedies are their own classification entirely. True. Harold, at least, has a job – in fact, he seems to work harder than anyone else in his company; and then he knocks off and gets stoned. Kumar has a bit of a “man-boy” problem but at least he’d rather not live on his father’s money. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994/40 "2006-01-08T22:57:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > True. Harold, at least, has a job – in fact, he seems to work harder than anyone else in his company; and then he knocks off and gets stoned. Kumar has a bit of a “man-boy” problem but at least he’d rather not live on his father’s money. The other difference that Kumar has compared to “man-boys” is that he is incredibly smart and could be very successful in the working world if he wanted to. It seems that the “man-boys” basically don’t have many, if any, skills that could transfer to the professional arena. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-boy-films/338994.md?page=3)