# Man drove truck into, shot up, set church on fire (Sept 28, 2025, Grand Blanc, MI) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 28, 2025, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461 "2025-09-28T20:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/41 "2025-09-29T12:42:24Z")
The photos and statements from yesterday are mind blowing. I hope the national politicians make a big statement about how the attack is a huge problem. Even though I don’t know anyone there, the photos and accounts really bring me to tears. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/42 "2025-09-29T13:14:05Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > Mormons reject the Nicene Creed and categorize God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit as individual and separate beings, a belief which seems to be super heretical to Christianity at large. It’s super heretical to the Christian groups that descended from the side that won out at the Council of Nicaea. But the people they were arguing with were also Christians, even if they lost the debate and have very few theological descendants today (relative to mainstream Christians). I’m obviously very much a non Christian, but from our here, it doesn’t seem complicated at all. If the doctrine of a faith states that Jesus was divine (and whether he is God or is a second divine being is splitting hairs) then (barring some exceptions like a polytheist who believes that lots and lots of things _including_ Jesus was divine) that is a Christian faith. If the doctrine of a faith states that Jesus was not divine but that he was the single most important prophet head and shoulders above all the others (similarly to how Muslims view Muhammad) then you’re a very odd Christian but still a Christian. If you believe that Jesus probably didn’t literally exist but is a deeply meaningful and universally true Jungian Archetype that tells us a lot about humanity, then you are not a Christian, or at least you aren’t preaching Christianity (cough cough Jordan Peterson). > [@Alessan](#): > > In terms more familiar to me, would it be right to say that Mormons are to Christians as Druze are to Muslims? My understanding is that Druze are quite a bit further from Muslims than Mormons are from Christians. But maybe that’s just because the Druze have been on their own trajectory separate from Islam for over a thousand years, and Mormons are much much much younger than that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/43 "2025-09-29T14:39:26Z")
Although the public face of the Mormon religion looks a lot like mainstream Christianity some of the parts they keep private/secret are pretty huge deviations from the Christian norm. Based on my limited knowledge of both the Mormons and the Druze I’d say it’s an apt comparison. The Mormons are definitely in the lineage of Abrahamic religions, in the Christian clade, but that’s about all that this outsider is prepared to maintain. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/44 "2025-09-29T14:44:09Z")
I was born and raised Mormon, multi-generations (I am a descendant of a “second wife” of a polygamist). . Later became an evangelical Christian. Now I’m basically non of the above. Some of the differences between mainstream Christianity and Mormonism include things like: To Mormons we used to live in the “pre-existence” with God (Elohim) and his wife (or maybe more than one wife). Our older brother was Jehovah (who later became Jesus). Another brother was Lucifer. There was a war in heaven and we were on the side of Jehovah and we won (I was taught that some on Jehovah’s side wasn’t as “valiant” and they were punished by being born black - but now they say that wasn’t correct, it was just opinion that people had back them). And our goal is to become good enough so that we can be Gods and have our own planet. And the Bible isn’t completely accurate. Men changed that over the years. And other things. But, they agree with other Christians in things like gays, transgender, etc. And maybe that is more important to some people. ---
**Author:** ![Author\_Balk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Author\_Balk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Author_Balk)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/45 "2025-09-29T14:45:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > some of the parts they keep private/secret are pretty huge deviations from the Christian norm I was typing some of the private/secret things when this was posted. I could give more. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/46 "2025-09-29T14:46:53Z")
Giving more is entirely up to you. Definitely, there is an abundance of ex-Mormons on YouTube delving into the topic in great detail. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/47 "2025-09-29T14:50:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Although the public face of the Mormon religion looks a lot like mainstream Christianity some of the parts they keep private/secret are pretty huge deviations from the Christian norm Much of the “Christian Born” in the US at least is based on things like _Dante’s Inferno_ which was basically intended as Christian themed fanfiction, not theology. If the biggest figure in your religion is Jesus, I am comfortable calling you a Christian. Druze don’t view Muhammad as the most important or central figure in their faith. That would be Shuaib who they identify with Jethro. Historically the faith diverged from Islam so they’re definitely in that “clade” as you say, but since Muhammad is not their most important figure anymore they’re not really Muslim. If 800 years from now Mormons view Joseph Smith as more important a prophet than Jesus, I’d say that’s analogous to Druze (and no longer truly Christian). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/48 "2025-09-29T14:51:42Z")
Joseph Smith is arguably second _only_ to Jesus. Point taken, though. As in biological species, the split between religious sects is not always clear cut. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/49 "2025-09-29T15:05:05Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Joseph Smith is arguably second _only_ to Jesus. > [@Author\_Balk](#): > > > [@Broomstick](#): > > > > some of the parts they keep private/secret are pretty huge deviations from the Christian norm > > I was typing some of the private/secret things when this was posted. I could give more. From what I know of Mormons I’m sure that many of their beliefs are clearly and obviously heretical to the mainstream churches, even to a layman’s analysis. But there are plenty of indisputably Christian sects that also hold beliefs that are completely heretical to one another. It’s just that their points of disagreement are things that make nonreligious laypeople shrug rather than flashy shit like “you get a whole planet after you die”. To devout and religiously educated people, though, those other heresies are also very significant. Christianity has historically included beliefs as diverse as “Jesus was just a dude but he was the one who got the truest and most complete prophecy from God” to “Jesus is the son of God” to “Jesus is a god but he’s a separate god from _God_ God” to “Jesus and God are the same being and also there’s a holy spirit that’s also the same being”. The Mormon view is “weird” (I put that in scare quotes because it’s only “weird” because it’s less familiar; if we weren’t familiar with the concept, the Trinity is by far the most esoteric and strange option) but it’s a difference of degree, not kind. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/50 "2025-09-29T15:08:06Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > > cough\< “We seek peaceful coexistence.” I find it uniquely American that the pilgrims came here to escape religious persecution, and yet a couple hundred years in, they’re committing the same religious persecution on the newbies. I grew up Catholic, and I’d heard all the trash talk: they’re not Christian, can’t have a Catholic president because he’ll answer to Rome. Then I move to AZ and I hear the exact same things about Mormons. SSDD. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/51 "2025-09-29T15:57:08Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > They’re not joking about the fire. I’m curious as to how it got this out of hand Firemen are allowed to risk their lives by running into burning buildings. Firemen are **not** allowed to risk their lives to put out fires when there is someone shooting at them. They will stage a block or two out, waiting for the all clear that it is safe\* to approach (to run into said burning building), all the while the fire is growing in size & intensity. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/52 "2025-09-29T16:37:01Z")
Moderating: This thread is getting seriously off topic. While it’s not designated as a Breaking News thread, wandering off into substantive discussions about Mormonism and its distinctions from other Christian groups belongs in a separate thread. Please start one: **If you are responding to something in a thread that is basically off-topic or likely to lead to a hijack, try this:** How to **Reply as a linked Topic** : Click Reply, in the upper left corner of the reply window is the reply type button, _looks like a curving arrow point to the right_. Choose **Reply as linked topic** and it starts a new thread. As an example, you can choose GD, IMHO or The Pit for it. That is actually the best method. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/53 "2025-09-29T16:43:36Z")
Removed, did not see mod note when I was writing this. ---
**Author:** ![raspberry\_hunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@raspberry\_hunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raspberry_hunter)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/54 "2025-09-29T16:51:14Z")
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is a pretty tight-knit religion. I don’t personally know anyone from this ward or stake, but I definitely know people who know people from this stake. I suspect that everyone in our church is probably no more than two or three layers of connection from this ward. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Rhodes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rhodes/32/273_2.png) [@Rhodes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhodes)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/55 "2025-09-29T16:55:14Z")
Apparently this was my wife’s ward when she was a kid, but probably doesn’t know anyone in the congregation now. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/56 "2025-09-29T19:30:11Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Mormons are pretty clearly Christians. Some people claim Catholics aren’t Christians; that’s not a good metric. The shooter thought Mormons were the Antichrist. > **[Michigan Church shooter told Burton council candidate that Mormons are the...](https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2025/09/michigan-church-shooter-told-burton-council-candidate-that-mormons-are-the-anti-christ.html)** > > The gunman who killed at least four worshippers at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Grand Blanc Township on Sunday unleashed an unprovoked, bitter critique of the Mormon faith just days before the deadly assault. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/57 "2025-09-29T20:09:56Z")
How does MLive know that the critique was unprovoked? Bitter, sure. Unexpected, that’s what the witness says. But provocation, if any, would have happened before that critique and would not be within the knowledge of anyone available to the writer of that article. I suspect the word choice is just sloppiness, also that they were trying to convey that the critique was not justified by anything they know about so far (because they don’t want to appear to be supporting this action in any way). All we can really say, based on this, is that this is one Christian trying to destroy other people who they believe are not Christians. Kind of messes up Trump’s narrative, though, at a stroke. Not that anyone will ever point that out, it’s not as though facts have any currency in public discourse any more. Just like that other guy who got shot last week. What was his name? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/58 "2025-09-29T20:12:44Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > How does MLive know that the critique was unprovoked? Because the guy who was on the receiving end was just campaigning for a political cause, and, according to him, the shooter just started ranting about Mormonism, apropos of nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/59 "2025-09-29T20:12:56Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > I suspect the word choice is just sloppiness They probably meant “unprompted”: the guy didn’t ask him anything about Mormons. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2025, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461/60 "2025-09-29T20:16:51Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Because the guy who was on the receiving end was just campaigning for a political cause, and, according to him, the shooter just started ranting about Mormonism, apropos of nothing. Then that’s really not the word they wanted. As DG notes immediately below your post, “unprompted” fits that much better. The shooter could have had years of (possibly imagined) provocations in his history that none of us knows about. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-drove-truck-into-shot-up-set-church-on-fire-sept-28-2025-grand-blanc-mi/1023461.md?page=4)