# Man falsely imprisoned 17 days because American Airlines falsely accuses him of shoplifting **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807 "2022-06-07T13:56:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/81 "2022-06-08T21:21:35Z")
Do you really think people in a jail just can’t contact anyone? Generally speaking jail and prison inmates call people on the outside all the time, including when they have been incarcerated on short notice. There are a number of ways to get a phone number if you really, literally, don’t know a single person in the world’s phone number. This guy is also probably in his 40s or 50s based on the picture of him I have seen, people of that age likely still know at least 1 or 2 numbers. Anyway, the big thing to realize is knowing a number isn’t actually that important. Some inmates have literally no one to call, no friends or family who will come help them. Who they can call is a lawyer, and the facility holding them has to make reasonable allowances for them to contact their attorney on a regular basis (exactly the parameters of that vary from state to state–some states for example have a rule where you can make three free phone calls to your attorney in a given window of time, usually per month, some don’t make the calls free), there is no hard and fast constitutional rule other than they need some level of access to an attorney. The way that has typically been implemented is they are free to have their lawyer visit them or to contact them, at least at some point, via a phone call. “But most people don’t have an attorney.” Shockingly, this is not the first person in American history to be put in a detention center who doesn’t keep an attorney on retainer. You can generally get a defense attorney or bail bondsman’s number _inside the facility_, generally speaking the jails want you to contact these people because they are part of the process that keeps the “churn” going and jails generally want you churned through the process whatever that’s going to be (jails aren’t for long term storage of inmates, typically no more than a year.) You call the number, explain you need an attorney and what your situation is, and they take it from there. You will hear from them again…at some point. Sometimes with an in person visit within a day or two. There are attorneys who, this is literally their whole business, hooking up with inmates held in jails and working their cases. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/82 "2022-06-08T21:31:36Z")
Steve Lehto’s take: “That is Kafka-esque!” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/IUKiHrd3G6k/maxresdefault.jpg "Man Jailed 17 Days After Airline Mistakenly IDs Him") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUKiHrd3G6k) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/83 "2022-06-08T22:03:00Z")
[New article](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/08/american-airlines-mistaken-arrest-lawsuit/) with some additional information. American didn’t report the crime - detectives used surveillance video to track the thief onto the flight. Police got a search warrant ( most likely actually a subpoena) for any and all recorded data for everyone on the flight - American allegedly only gave Lowe’s details which led to the arrest warrants being issued. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/84 "2022-06-08T22:25:09Z")
I just realized something - the police wanted all the recorded data for everyone on the flight. What good would that do, even if American gave them all the data - how would the police ever know which name was the shoplifter? ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/85 "2022-06-08T22:32:36Z")
Maybe match the names and addresses with driver license database photos and look for some one matching the surveillance tapes? Which would have been better than what American did. How _did_ American determine which name to report? ---
**Author:** ![Ynnad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4491bb/32.png) [@Ynnad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ynnad)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/86 "2022-06-08T22:38:55Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, **nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.** ” I know this may sound crazy, but the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment does not apply in this case because the man was merely being detained for trial and he had not been convicted of a crime for which he was being **punished**. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/87 "2022-06-08T22:49:45Z")
That’s the thing though - there isn’t so far as I know a single database with drivers license photos from all 50 states and one thing I am certain of is that not every police department has access to every state’s database. I suppose they could have been planning to contact PDs in every state a passenger was from to try to get a photo - but I think there’s a lot more of the story missing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/88 "2022-06-08T23:31:48Z")
It doesn’t say punishments levied by a court, it says punishments inflicted. The state can inflict punishments without a guilty verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/89 "2022-06-08T23:38:38Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > That’s the thing though - there isn’t so far as I know a single database with drivers license photos from all 50 states and one thing I am certain of is that not every police department has access to every state’s database. I suppose they could have been planning to contact PDs in every state a passenger was from to try to get a photo - but I think there’s a lot more of the story missing. It sounds like a perfectly good start to the investigation–get the manifest. After you get it, you decide how you’re going to use it to identify possible suspects. It doesn’t suggest to me that there was something missing from the story, except why didn’t American turn over the full manifest? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/90 "2022-06-09T00:04:49Z")
And why didn’t the police question the fact that there was only one name on the list? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/91 "2022-06-09T00:45:44Z")
They can’t dig out the rack and hot irons due to a loophole like that. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/92 "2022-06-09T00:58:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And why didn’t the police question the fact that there was only one name on the list? Just because they started the investigation with a perfectly ordinary act doesn’t mean they did anything else right. But really I would rather this not be blamed on any particular police department, or jail, or court, or corporation, or any individual therein. This should represent an indictment for a significant flaw in the justice system as a whole. It simply should not be possible for something like this to happen, not matter how badly an individual or a series of individuals screw up. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/93 "2022-06-09T02:06:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And why didn’t the police question the fact that there was only one name on the list? American Airlines handed them the perpetrator’s name on a plate, and you want them to go make work for themselves by investigating? This sounds like one of those episodes of _Law & Order_ where the detectives realize they made a mistake and go back to find that the real killer was the granddaughter instead of the housekeeper. That’s way too much effort for reality. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/94 "2022-06-09T02:12:51Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I suppose it could have been a store within the airport that was closed. Or a duty-free shop, which can only sell to travelers with an international ticket. IIRC, they don’t even let you in without proof of international travel - although I may be wrong on that one. But you can’t buy anything. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/95 "2022-06-09T11:25:08Z")
I find it strange that they went to all this trouble to identify ONE shoplifter. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/96 "2022-06-09T11:38:47Z")
The whole problem is caused in part by the fact that none of the people in this chain of events is doing _enough_. If they had worked harder on the case, instead of lazily passing on documents, then this would likely have not happened. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/97 "2022-06-09T15:07:23Z")
> [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](#): > > Maybe match the names and addresses with driver license database photos and look for some one matching the surveillance tapes? For shoplifting? That’s way too much like work. I’m surprised they did anything at all. “Yeah, we’ll get right on that, after I take a call from an old guy that’s complaining about kids on his lawn.” > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > and you want them to go make work for themselves by investigating? This sounds like one of those episodes of _Law & Order_ … That’s way too much effort for reality. > [@enipla](#): > > I find it strange that they went to all this trouble to identify ONE shoplifter. > [@doreen](#): > > - but I think there’s a lot more of the story missing. Me, too. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/98 "2022-06-09T18:30:20Z")
Perhaps it has to do with theft and crossing a state line. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/99 "2022-06-09T19:02:31Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > For shoplifting? That’s way too much like work. I’m surprised they did anything at all. “Yeah, we’ll get right on that, after I take a call from an old guy that’s complaining about kids on his lawn.” I always thought them overpriced but have at least killed time window shopping; they do have some electronics that are not cheap. Does anyone know if AA owns the store where the shoplifting occurred or was it just a typical retail location? If the cop asked for a list of everyone on the plane & AA returned one guy how did the cop not ask if he was the only passenger or if there were more? AA screwed up but it sounds like the detective screwed up even more. _IF_ AA owned the store & returned just his info I could see the detective running with it but that’s about the only scenario where he didn’t eff up - “Ummm, AA, why did you give me this guy’s info?” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807/100 "2022-06-09T19:19:36Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > For shoplifting? That’s way too much like work. I’m surprised they did anything at all. “Yeah, we’ll get right on that, after I take a call from an old guy that’s complaining about kids on his lawn.” Normally I’d agree. But then they wouldn’t have bothered going after this guy a year later. If it’s a big enough deal for that, then surely it’s a big enough deal to try and get the airline to actually give them the information they needed to find the right person. At the very least, I would expect it was a big item, or that the guy did something else besides shoplift. But I also don’t have enough faith anymore to say there must be more to the story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-falsely-imprisoned-17-days-because-american-airlines-falsely-accuses-him-of-shoplifting/965807.md?page=6)