# Man killed after chess argument **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 15, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914 "2014-01-15T22:39:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/41 "2014-01-17T15:33:48Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > What I just learned from this article is that there is a game on record in which a player under-promoted (i.e. promoted not to a Queen but another piece) twice in the same game - to Knight each time. Both underpromotions were necessary in order to win. From what article? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/42 "2014-01-17T17:54:07Z")
“The killer’s identity is right there…” _whips off sunglasses_ “…in black and white.” ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/43 "2014-01-17T18:43:25Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Huh, I’ve seen underpromotion to knight in puzzles where it’s mate-in-one, and I can see a situation where promoting to queen would be stalemate, but usually in such situations you can get away with a rook, which is still usually overwhelming power at that point in the game. I could maybe even see knighting into a royal fork, except that no grandmaster would ever let himself get into that situation. But underpromotion to knight, twice in one game? That’s hard to imagine. And it’s rare, obviously - as rare as giving mate by castling (Edward Lasker once mated by discovering check with his King when he could have castled instead to checkmate). The game cited in the link I’ve put in below covers the situation - first it was a use-it-or-lose-it promotion when White had three scattered pawns for a Knight, then White had a second promotion opportunity when he had to promote to Knight to avoid a fork (though there were other ways to win), and this led to a winning promotion (to Queen) shortly after… since, of course, King and two Knights can’t mate even if the opposing Knight got lost. > [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > From what article? Sorry, [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess)#Underpromotion). Took out the Wiki cite for something more authoritative, but this is the page that has the unusual ending. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/44 "2014-01-17T19:10:18Z")
> [@Walton\_Firm](#): > > Correct. > > The two most well-known cases where this question came up in a grand master tournament: > [ul] > [li]Korchnoi - Karpov, 1974: Korchnoi wanted to castle but wasn’t sure if it was allowed since his rook was under attack, so he got up and asked the arbiter, who told him that it was indeed allowed; he ended up winning the game.[/li][li]Averbakh - Purdy, 1960: Black castled Queenside while the extra square which the rook had to cross over, was being attacked by White. Averbakh pointed this out, thinking it was an illegal move. Purdy told him that the move was legal; Averbakh believed him but was quite surprised. Averbakh won anyway.[/li][/ul] > So apparently it’s possible to get quite far in chess without knowing all the rules… Quite far indeed: a few years later, Korchnoi was in a match for the world championship against Karpov. (He lost, but still, that meant he was at least briefly #2 in the world.) > [@standingwave](#): > > I’ve done it when promotion to Q would hsve resulted in immediate stalemate. Yeah, but I bet you’ve never done it\* twice in one game\*. That was the eye-popping thing about **Malacandra** ’s reference. I’m sure there are numerous games at all levels where underpromotions took place. > [@Bricker](#): > > IIRC from back in the dark ages when I played competitively, the rule was something like, “…or words to that effect…” meaning that it was perfectly sufficient to say, “I’m adjusting this piece,” or “This is not my move,” or anything along those lines – as long as it was said BEFORE the touch. So _j’adoube_ was, as you say, A magic word, but not the ONLy magic word. 🙂 Back in my chessplaying days (~45 years ago), we just said ‘adjust’ and didn’t get all fancy with French and stuff. > [@standingwave](#): > > Perhaps an argument over whether a position repeated three times leading to stalemate? Actually, this is one of those things that could set off an argument. (I’m assuming you really meant ‘draw’ rather than ‘stalemate.’) Not only does the position have to be repeated three times, but _the same player has to have the next move in all three cases_ in order to call a draw on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/45 "2014-01-17T19:32:31Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Sorry, [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Promotion_(chess)#Underpromotion). Took out the Wiki cite for something more authoritative, but this is the page that has the unusual ending. Wow, that’s cool. Here is the [complete play-by-play](http://199.237.62.163/perl/chessgame?gid=1156733)–I look forward to playing it through tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/46 "2014-01-17T20:23:04Z")
He clearly fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia”, but only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against the Sicilian Defense when death is on the line!” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/47 "2014-01-17T20:31:42Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > He clearly fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia”, but only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against the Sicilian Defense when death is on the line!” I have developed an immunity to iocaine powder. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/48 "2014-01-17T20:39:55Z")
Gary Larson material. When chess players go bad. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/49 "2014-01-17T20:53:58Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I have developed an immunity to iocaine powder. I castled when your back was turned! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/50 "2014-01-17T21:04:18Z")
> [@Flywheel](#): > > I castled when your back was turned! But I am not left handed! ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/51 "2014-01-17T21:55:44Z")
> [@Pazu](#): > > He clearly fell victim to one of the classic blunders, the most famous of which is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia”, but only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against the Sicilian Defense when death is on the line!” The murderer was from Palermo. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/52 "2014-01-17T22:26:08Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Wow, that’s cool. Here is the [complete play-by-play](http://199.237.62.163/perl/chessgame?gid=1156733)–I look forward to playing it through tonight. Thank you - watching that fascinating Knight ending is even more fun than reading about it. (When we held the SDMB chess championship four years ago, **Maserschmidt** and I had an interesting tussle that culminated in a Knight ending that, while neither as involved nor as well played as the one in the linked game, was still full of interesting twists and turns. It’s on Gameknot somewhere.) ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/53 "2014-01-17T23:52:30Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The murderer was from Palermo. - Once in a while all the gods will smile on little old Palermo Humble shy Palermo suddenly hits the press And I report with all the pride and joy that I possess Half of the world and his wife has our address Our little town will be rife with games of chess!\* \* Also: [Sicilian Defense](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Defence). \*Apologies to Anderssen and Ulvaeus. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/54 "2014-01-18T00:19:13Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Thank you - watching that fascinating Knight ending is even more fun than reading about it. > > (When we held the SDMB chess championship four years ago, **Maserschmidt** and I had an interesting tussle that culminated in a Knight ending that, while neither as involved nor as well played as the one in the linked game, was still full of interesting twists and turns. It’s on Gameknot somewhere.) How about an SDMB poker tournament? Is it possible to set up private tournament on, say Pokerstars, play money of course. I think it would be a hoot. NLHE of course. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/55 "2014-01-18T01:36:20Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > The murderer was from Palermo. Still sounds like a movie Castle \*\*\*Rook \*\*\*Entertainment studios used to make… ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/56 "2014-01-18T01:40:43Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > This is unacceptable. This should only happen in Russia. Ummm … also Florida (and probably Texas too)! Yee Haw! > **[Florida Movie Theater Shooting Leaves One Dead In Altercation Over Texting](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=713001)** > > According to the following news story: Two couples were seated in a movie theatre watching the movie “Lone Survivor”. One of the couples was seated behind the other. One of the couple in front was texting and apparently making some noise. This... ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/57 "2014-01-18T06:29:15Z")
> [@Lazlo Hapsburg](#): > > Ummm … also Florida (and probably Texas too)! Yee Haw! 😕 That wasn’t an argument about _chess_. Only Russians should die in arguments about _chess_. Because, like, they care. In Russia the fact this guy only _tried_ to eat the other guy’s heart, and gave up before he was finished, would be considered a lamentable lack of passion for the game. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Wayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4bbf92/32.png) [@Charlie\_Wayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Wayne)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2014, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914/58 "2014-01-18T07:32:04Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > 😕 That wasn’t an argument about _chess_. Only Russians should die in arguments about _chess_. Because, like, they care. In Russia the fact this guy only _tried_ to eat the other guy’s heart, and gave up before he was finished, would be considered a lamentable lack of passion for the game. OK. I must have misunderstood. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-killed-after-chess-argument/678914.md?page=2)