# Man kinds purpose **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 17, 2020, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808 "2020-11-17T16:27:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/21 "2020-11-18T12:52:35Z")
The lone goal of evolution in general appears to be making the organism in question “better”; better at handling its environment, better at reproducing, better at pretty much everything. Human evolution is no different in that regard. I don’t think that can be described as a “purpose”. What makes humans different is that, because we are thinking self-aware creatures, individual humans have individual goals of attainment, which is why we have so many marvelous specialties within our species. We try to find our own “purpose” in life by doing things that we personally deem to be meaningful. I believe that, on this planet at least, we are alone in that. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/22 "2020-11-18T13:12:29Z")
We are soylent green for the universe. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8ZZvLBa5GYY/hqdefault.jpg "SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZZvLBa5GYY) ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/23 "2020-11-18T13:14:01Z")
Human evolution is differentiated from other animals by two characteristics - communication and transportation. If one seeks a a purpose it may lie there. Carbon is just a by product. ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/24 "2020-11-18T13:36:30Z")
I am thinking our purpose is to create artificial intelligence to replace us or supplement us. If artificial intelligent based lifeforms do come into being perhaps we will be their pampered pets since we are building into their core assignment is to serve man. Wait, to serve man can mean something else . . . [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/NIufLRpJYnI/hqdefault.jpg ""It's a Cookbook!" Ahah... I get it!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIufLRpJYnI) ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/25 "2020-11-18T13:43:40Z")
> [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](#): > > We are soylent green for the universe. Well, aren’t you just a ray of sunshine! LOL ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/26 "2020-11-18T19:05:29Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/5xLLwERIqXs/hqdefault.jpg "The Jerk - I Found Out What My Special Purpose Is For") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xLLwERIqXs) ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/27 "2020-11-18T19:11:21Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > Of course it makes sense, just because I don’t believe we have a purpose doesn’t mean I will quit looking for one. Let me know if you come across my Swiss Army Knife tweezers. They went missing a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/28 "2020-11-18T19:21:57Z")
I don’t know that it’s necessarily a purpose, but the universe has a preferred state of higher entropy. Life increases entropy more than a barren planet will. Humans have the potential ability to spread that life beyond our planet, even beyond our solar system. If we have any purpose at all, it is to increase the entropy of the universe, and hasten its demise. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/29 "2020-11-18T19:59:08Z")
In a purely natural and physical world I don’t think there is any purpose. In a world with the supernatural or divine greater powers their purpose would have to be revealed. I’d be surprised if it were CO2 level related. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/30 "2020-11-18T20:31:27Z")
The thread is absurd - it’s patently clear that the purpose of humanity is to generate an endless supply of new content and entertainment for me, personally, to enjoy. I mean, what else are you people good for? ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/31 "2020-11-19T05:16:31Z")
While on the subject of Carbon I have some questions about black muck that is usually seen around slow moving or stagnant water . It appears to have a lot of carbon in it. It looks like it would be one of natures tools for sequestering carbon. Is this black muck how oil and coal start off?. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/32 "2020-11-19T06:35:45Z")
There are some interesting ideas along these lines. Not so much about humans and carbon, but life and entropy: > **[Entropy and life | Entropy and the origin of life](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_and_life#Entropy_and_the_origin_of_life)** > > The second law of thermodynamics applied to the origin of life is a far more complicated issue than the further development of life, since there is no "standard model" of how the first biological lifeforms emerged, only a number of competing hypotheses. The problem is discussed within the context of abiogenesis, implying gradual pre-Darwinian chemical evolution. In 1924, Alexander Oparin suggested that sufficient energy for generating early lifeforms from non-living molecules was provided in a "p... > **[A New Physics Theory of Life | Quanta Magazine](https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-new-thermodynamics-theory-of-the-origin-of-life-20140122/)** > > An MIT physicist has proposed the provocative idea that life exists because the law of increasing entropy drives matter to acquire lifelike physical properties. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/33 "2020-11-19T14:17:07Z")
Oil is generally believed to be the result of phytoplankton deposits in ancient seas. Coal is the result of ancient bogs in the period between plants evolving lignin and bacteria evolving the ability to break down lignin. And the planet doesn’t need humans to return carbon to the atmosphere. It happens all on its own when fossil deposits go into a subduction zone. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/34 "2020-11-19T15:03:22Z")
I’m not sure how I feel about that second link. Not that I disagree with the physics, just the article, as he was not the first to propose such an idea. He may have done some work to advance the idea, but the first I am aware of to propose the second law of thermodynamics as the primary driver of the development of life came from Eric Smith and Mike Russel. As Russel said, [“The purpose of life is to hydrogenate carbon dioxide.”](https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/free-energy-and-the-meaning-of-life) But yeah, I am a full subscriber that life functions to increase entropy, and for all our faults, mankind is definitely doing our part on that front. One of the reasons that I’ve never believed that we can solve anything by “reducing our footprint”, as that goes not only against human psychology and desires, but against the very nature and “purpose” of life itself. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/35 "2020-11-19T15:18:51Z")
I’ve heard that but it is not what I observe. Animals gather and organize materials. The earth is cooling which reduces entropy. Oh, and all planets are round. Where’s the entropy. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/36 "2020-11-19T16:21:16Z")
> [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I don’t necessarily believe that evolution has any purpose so I will not call this a theory as much as it is a hypothesis but if mankind does have a purpose I think it would simply be to recharge the atmosphere with available carbon. You seem to be muddling the idea that mankind has a purpose vs. evolution having a purpose. Mankind has only the purpose that it ascribes to itself. Evolution just happens, it doesn’t have a purpose. And this business about recharging the atmosphere sounds like woo. > [@HoneyBadgerDC](#): > > I find myself looking for possible reasons that such a disruptive creature might be allowed to exist We are not “allowed” to exist, we just do. > [@Jasmine](#): > > The lone goal of evolution in general appears to be making the organism in question “better”; better at handling its environment, better at reproducing, better at pretty much everything. Human evolution is no different in that regard. I don’t think that can be described as a “purpose”. Evolution is a model to explain how random mutations occur, and those mutations that are detrimental to survival cause an organism to die, and those that enhance survival cause an organism to survive, and those mutations are genetic and can be inherited, and so the organisms that survive are more likely to produce offspring with the same beneficial mutation. There is no goal. There is no “better.” There is only survival or not survival. (I’m not sure how you start by stating it’s a goal and finishing by saying it’s not a purpose; maybe we are in agreement.) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/37 "2020-11-19T17:54:41Z")
You correctly describe the _process_ of evolution: heritable changes that affect suitability tend to be reinforced in quantity of offspring if favorable or the opposite if unfavorable. Nothing more, but also nothing less. At a conceptual hand-waving level that amounts to the same outcome _as if_ evolution had a goal of increasing fitness for the current niche. And if you substitute “better” for “fitness for current niche” then you’ve got @Jasmine’s very colloquial definition, confusions and all. What’s a “better” fly? One that’s better at making more flies. As you almost said, any other definition of “better” is strictly wrong evolutionarily speaking. But at the same time: faster, stronger, more metabolically efficient are all functional improvements that tend to improve reproductive success while also looking like improvements in those other aspects _as such_ to us sentient observers. Larger ideas of evolutionary purpose beyond the most narrow “seeking” of greater reproductive success are of course woo. Which again is not truly _seeking_, but is simply an emergent statistical property of which heritable changes confer reproductive benefit and which do not versus the _status quo ante_. At the level of humans, we now have heritable genetics, heritable culture, and heritable technology. Call it nature, nurture, and tech. It has become possible for us to deliberately direct those higher levels of heritable stuff to self-chosen ends. Unlike primitive humans and the brute beasts who are stuck with heritable nature only. So we can now choose to create a purpose for humanity and to consciously pursue it by evolving our nurture and our tech. Or, far more likely, 7 billion of us can chose 7 billion purposes with some but far from total overlap between them all. With the result that the evolution of our culture and our tech is every bit as short-sighted and haphazard as the evolution of our genes was and will continue to be. And with nearly as many steps backwards as forwards. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/38 "2020-11-19T21:44:49Z")
> [@Crane](#): > > Animals gather and organize materials. And they do so at the cost of the environment. Life decreases its internal entropy by increasing that around it. We can build a house, which is a lower entropy state than a pile of lumber and bricks, but we do so at a cost, and that cost is to increase the entropy of the environment. Same thing within our cells. Inside of a cell is a pretty low entropy place, but it gets there and maintains that state by using energy in ways that increase the entropy of the environment. > [@Crane](#): > > The earth is cooling which reduces entropy. No, the Earth cooling does not reduce entropy. A hot object in a cold universe is at lower entropy than a cool object in a cold universe. > [@Crane](#): > > Oh, and all planets are round. Where’s the entropy. It’s in the materials that used to be a planetary nebula, which was much lower entropy than their current state all bound up into a planet. The light coming off the sun is pretty low entropy. When it hits the moon, some is reflected, and some is converted into heat which is radiated at longer wavelengths. The same amount of energy leaves the moon as it receives, but some of it is in the form of more lower energy photons. However, when that same sunlight hits a plant on Earth, that plant absorbs the sunlight, and over processes and time, (and animals eating and excreting it) eventually emits that energy again, but in even lower energy photons as what is emitted by the moon. The sugar and oxygen that your body uses was produced by photons that left a surface at nearly 10,000 degrees F, and when you use that, you then emit that energy at under 100 degrees F. Far more photons at a much longer wavelength. The Earth creates more entropy than a similar sized ball of rock would. The planet would reflect more light at shorter wavelengths and lower entropy than it does with the life that is present on it. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/39 "2020-11-20T13:07:49Z")
K9…I yield to your greater insight, I realize my view is naive, but I observe a universe that is constantly self organizing. Rocks orbit and collide and form round bodies that develop atmospheric and geothermal systems. The planets align in a common plane and all bodies rest at an angle of repose. My view is limited. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808/40 "2020-11-20T18:15:58Z")
I believe that entropy is increasing in our observations, which effectively means things are becoming more chaotic. Stars burn out or explode. Orbits decay and comets smash into things. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-kinds-purpose/925808.md?page=3)