# Man, Ohio is FUCKED UP!
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [October 30, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012 "2004-10-30T13:12:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/1 "2004-10-30T13:12:12Z")
I knew things were bad, but this puts it into one place.
> [@](#):
>
> [Twelve ways Bush is now stealing the Ohio vote](http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/810)
> Twelve ways Bush is now stealing the Ohio vote
> by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman
> October 27, 2004
>
> The Republican “November Surprise” to steal the 2004 election is in full force here in Ohio. With polls showing a dead heat, the GOP is staging an all-out attack on a fair vote count in the Buckeye State.
>
> Here are a dozen ways they’re doing it:
>
> \*\*\* Under an archaic Ohio law, both the Republican and Democratic Parties, or any slate of five candidates, may embed official election challengers inside polling places.\*\* The New York Times reported on Oct. 23 that the Republican Party intends to place thousands of lawyers and other GOP faithfuls inside the polls to challenge voters. Republican insiders confide here that the key goal is to jam lines and frustrate new voters. The GOP apparently figures many voters in key Democratic precincts won’t wait in line more than 15 minutes to vote. This is certain to be a major tactic in Cleveland’s Cuyahoga County and other Democratic strongholds. The GOP is not planning to challenge voters in Republican districts.
>
> \*\*\* The Republican party has sent letters challenging thousands of Franklin County students who are registered to vote absentee.\*\* Franklin County is home to Columbus, the state’s largest city and its capitol. Though it is also home to Ohio State University, thousands of local students go to schools outside the county or state. The GOP apparently does not want their votes counted. This unprecedented mass challenge has prompted the Franklin County Board of Elections, whose director is a conservative Republican, to reserve the large Veterans Memorial Auditorium downtown to process the challenges this Thursday, as John Kerry comes to town with Bruce Springsteen. The County has told thousands of students that if they don’t appear in Columbus to answer the GOP challenges, they may lose their right to vote.
>
> \*\*\* The Franklin County Board of Elections has called or written an undetermined number of voters who obtained absentee ballots, challenging their addresses.\*\* In at least one case, after a series of angry phone calls, the Board admitted there was nothing wrong with the address in question and re-instated voting rights. The voter in question was a registered Democrat. His wife, an independent at the same address, was not challenged. It is unclear how many others have been wrongly knocked out.
>
> \*\*\* Even if they are counted, Franklin County’s absentee ballot forms are rigged in ways strikingly reminiscent of those in Florida 2000.\*\* On many absentee forms, Kerry is listed third on the list of presidential candidates. But the actual number you punch for Kerry is “4.” If you punch “3” you’ve just voted for Bush. Sound familiar?
>
> \*\*\* Franklin County’s right wing Elections Director is insisting on e-voting machines which have malfunctioned in at least two Congressional elections, and which have no paper trail.\*\* The November issues of Popular Science and Popular Mechanics Magazines ran the following headlines on their covers, respectively: “E-vote emergency: And you thought dimpled chads were bad’” and “Could hackers tilt the election?” Vigorous protests against the paperless machines have been staged here, but many will be used, rendering a meaningful recount impossible.
>
> \*\*\* In four other Ohio counties, the notorious Diebold company, whose CEO Wally O’Dell has pledged to deliver Ohio’s votes to Bush, will provide the e-voting machines to count votes without any paper trail\*\* while using proprietary “secret” software. O’Dell lives in the wealthy Columbus suburb of Upper Arlington and is a major Bush donor.
>
> \*\*\* Twenty GOP-dominated Ohio counties have given wrong information to former felons about their voter eligibility.\*\* In Hamilton County, home of Cincinnati and the Republican Taft family, officials told numerous former felons that a judge had to sign off before they could vote, which is blatantly false.
>
> \*\*\* Franklin County, which normally cancels 2-300 registered voters a year for felony convictions, has sent at least 3500 cancellation letters\*\* to both current felons and ex-felons whose convictions date back to 1998. The list includes numerous citizens who were charged with felonies but convicted **only of misdemeanors.**
>
> \*\*\* Republican Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell has reversed a long-standing Ohio practice and is barring voters from casting provisional ballots within their county\*\* if they are registered to vote but there’s been a mistake about where they are expected to cast their ballot. In this year’s spring primaries, Blackwell allowed voters to cast provisional ballots by county, even if they were in the wrong precinct. But this fall, such voters will have to leave the wrong precinct and find their way to the right one. Blackwell hopes to succeed Republican Bob Taft as governor, and has labored hard to install e-voting machines with no paper trail, to give the statewide contract to Diebold, and to take a long series of steps apparently designed to help hand Ohio to George W. Bush. Blackwell is being widely compared to the infamous Katherine Harris, who handed Florida to George W. Bush in 2000 and was rewarded with a safe Congressional seat.
>
> \*\*\* The Columbus Dispatch (which has endorsed Bush) and WVKO Radio have both documented phone calls from people impersonating Board of Elections workers and directing registered voters to different and incorrect polling sites.\*\* One individual was falsely told not to vote at the polling station across the street from his house, but at a “new” site, four miles away. Under Blackwell’s new rules, such a vote would not be counted.
>
> \*\*\* In Cincinnati, some 150,000 voters were moved from active to inactive status \*\* within the last four years for not voting in the last two federal elections. This is not required under Ohio law, but is an option allowed and exercised by the Republican-dominated Hamilton County Board of Elections.
>
> \*\*\* Secretary of State Blackwell ruled that any voter registration form on other than 80-pound weight bond paper would not be accepted.\*\* This is an old law left over from pre-scanning days. Many voters who had registered on lighter paper, had their registration returned, even though the forms had been officially sanctioned by local election boards.
>
> No Republican has ever won the presidency without carrying Ohio. This year the GOP seems determined to win it, no matter what they have do to the electoral process.
Got Democracy? Not if the GOP can help it.
---
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/2 "2004-10-30T13:15:56Z")
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> I knew things were bad, but this puts it into one place.
>
> Got Democracy? Not if the GOP can help it.
Hmmm. Well, a Democratic insider confided in me yesterday that the Democratic tactic will be to accuse the GOP of vote fraud on the slightest pretext. If none exists, this insider went on, the preferred tactic is to mention _past_ GOP vote suppression allegations and let the listener infer they are talking about the present.
How about that?
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/3 "2004-10-30T13:19:35Z")
> [@Equipoise](#):
>
> I knew things were bad, but this puts it into one place.
>
> Got Democracy? Not if the GOP can help it.
“It became necessary to destroy the village in order to save it” …Anonymous U.S. Army soldier, Vietnam
---
### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/4 "2004-10-30T13:22:09Z")
By the way, I love this “under an archiac law…” business.
“Under an archiac law, murder in Ohio is technically illegal, and the GOP-dominated legislature vowed to continue to enfore this archiac law.”
Look, if you don’t like the law, change the law. The law’s been around for a long time - it is, after all, archiac - and has survived both Republican and Democratic-controlled governments. If these archiac laws were so terrible, where were the Democrats trying to repeal them? It’s as though the Dems just woke up last month, and said, “Oh, my! Look - there are all these evil old laws! I had no idea! I’m shocked, _shocked_ to discover that election officials and observers may challenge a voter’s legitimacy.”
Here’s my new take on this nonsense: the Democrats were apparently too stupid to notice the existence of these laws until now. Being too stupid is almost always a major strategic error. So, good on the GOP for working within the law to ensure that only legitimate voters are permitted to vote. Too bad for the poor befuddled Democrats, who can’t get their illegal voters to the polls in such high proportions.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/5 "2004-10-30T13:22:44Z")
If both the Republicans and Democrats are allowed to do it, why don’t the Democrats fight back? Why don’t they post their own thugs at polling places to intercede on behalf of voters? Why can’t the Kerry/Edwards/Times ticket ever do anything but whine?
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/6 "2004-10-30T13:31:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> By the way, I love this “under an archiac law…” business.
>
> “Under an archiac law, murder in Ohio is technically illegal, and the GOP-dominated legislature vowed to continue to enfore this archiac law.”
>
> Look, if you don’t like the law, change the law. The law’s been around for a long time - it is, after all, archiac - and has survived both Republican and Democratic-controlled governments. If these archiac laws were so terrible, where were the Democrats trying to repeal them? It’s as though the Dems just woke up last month, and said, “Oh, my! Look - there are all these evil old laws! I had no idea! I’m shocked, _shocked_ to discover that election officials and observers may challenge a voter’s legitimacy.”
>
> Here’s my new take on this nonsense: the Democrats were apparently too stupid to notice the existence of these laws until now. Being too stupid is almost always a major strategic error. So, good on the GOP for working within the law to ensure that only legitimate voters are permitted to vote. Too bad for the poor befuddled Democrats, who can’t get their illegal voters to the polls in such high proportions.
Two things.
First, enforcement of old laws left on the books may be technically correct, but it’s still shitty. Nice strawman with the “murder is is technically illegal…” but there are plenty of instances of bad laws left on the books but ignored for years. Legislatures have enough work to do (and enough partisan bickering and pork-barreling) that they often don’t get around to fixing problems in current legislation, let alone updating the old law that requires a specific weight of paper for voter registration forms.
Second, do you really think that these are illegal voters? Specifically, do you _really_ think that someone who submitted a voter registration form on lightweight paper should not be allowed to exercise their right to vote?
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/7 "2004-10-30T13:34:17Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> If both the Republicans and Democrats are allowed to do it, why don’t the Democrats fight back? Why don’t they post their own thugs at polling places to intercede on behalf of voters? Why can’t the Kerry/Edwards/Times ticket ever do anything but whine?
As a lifelong Democrat, I am rather happy that my party’s response to shitty, underhanded tactics is to point out that they are shitty and underhanded, rather than engaging in them as well.
Would you prefer a party that did whatever it could to win, or one that reserved itself to ethical tactics?
Not that I am claiming my party does this, mind. It’s ust that I prefer that as a course of action, so that’s one of the ways they keep me on their side.
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### Author:  [@Duke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/8 "2004-10-30T13:34:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Hmmm. Well, a Democratic insider confided in me yesterday that the Democratic tactic will be to accuse the GOP of vote fraud on the slightest pretext. If none exists, this insider went on, the preferred tactic is to mention _past_ GOP vote suppression allegations and let the listener infer they are talking about the present.
>
> How about that?
Hmmm. Well, a Republican insider confided in me yesterday that the GOP tactic will be to accuse the Democrats of vote fraud on the slightest pretext. If none exists, this insider went on, the preferred tactic is to mention _past_ Democratic vote suppression allegations and let the listener infer they are talking about the present.
How about that?
[sub]Your move, **Rick** :D[/sub]
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/9 "2004-10-30T13:39:07Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> As a lifelong Democrat, I am rather happy that my party’s response to shitty, underhanded tactics is to point out that they are shitty and underhanded, rather than engaging in them as well.
What’s shitty about interceding to defend people? Note that I did not advocate Democrats go in and do to Republican voters what Republicans allegedly are doing to Democrat voters. Re-examine the suggestion: “Why don’t they post their own thugs at polling places **to intercede on behalf of voters**?”
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### Author:  [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/10 "2004-10-30T13:46:47Z")
It’s the use of the word “thugs”, **Lib**. Carries certain connotations, no?
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### Author:  [@Brainiac4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brainiac4)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/11 "2004-10-30T13:52:46Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> What’s shitty about interceding to defend people? Note that I did not advocate Democrats go in and do to Republican voters what Republicans allegedly are doing to Democrat voters. Re-examine the suggestion: “Why don’t they post their own thugs at polling places **to intercede on behalf of voters**?”
My apologies, then. I had misunderstood your use of “it” in the first sentence to apply to all of the tactics, rather than one of them.
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> If both the Republicans and Democrats are allowed to do it, why don’t the Democrats fight back?
And your use of “thugs” in the second one threw me as well.
If all you’re suggesting is that we (the Democrats) put some folks into the polling places to prevent miscarriages of justice, then I think it’s a fine idea.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/12 "2004-10-30T13:56:26Z")
I think the thugs at the polls should be met by violence. This is no joke, assholes. This is our right to vote. Do you not know that Americans will kill for it?
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/13 "2004-10-30T13:57:30Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> My apologies, then. I had misunderstood your use of “it” in the first sentence to apply to all of the tactics, rather than one of them.
>
> And your use of “thugs” in the second one threw me as well.
>
> If all you’re suggesting is that we (the Democrats) put some folks into the polling places to prevent miscarriages of justice, then I think it’s a fine idea.
And they’re doing so.
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### Author:  [@fessie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fessie)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/14 "2004-10-30T14:09:50Z")
Don’t know about the rest of the charges, but the part about 80# paper stock has been rescinded by Blackwell - and some counties had found creative ways around it, anyway, just because the people there believed in preserving the right to vote. In one office they taped lightweight registrations to the heavier paper.
Hopefully some of the other information is inaccurate as well. I did read about a ballot with a printing problem similar to the one described, and that it had been fixed - don’t know if that was Ohio or not.
On the good news front, I personally know of people who have never been politically active before, but are participating now. I almost fell out of my chair when my retired Father-in-Law in Cincinnati called yesterday from [MoveOn.org](http://MoveOn.org)’s offices, where he was doing some volunteering. It’s not a scientific survey by any stretch – but I have the impression a lot of people are pissed off and taking action.
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/15 "2004-10-30T14:18:26Z")
**Equipoise** is on the Democratic ticket, **Liveral**? Or is it the _Columbus Free Press_ that is on the ticket?
As someone who on Tuesday morning will vote as many times as I can for Kerry (I suspect that under archaic Colorado laws, this will only be once), this article is 70% bullshit, 20% innuendo, and 10% fact.
> [@](#):
>
> - Under an archaic Ohio law, both the Republican and Democratic Parties, or any slate of five candidates, may embed official election challengers inside polling places.
This law is by no means archaic. Poll watchers are a valid part of the electoral process. As far as I know, all 50 states allow them. Here in Colorado, Denver Election Commision officials have stated that if the poll watchers begin to abuse their powers, they will be stopped.
> [@](#):
>
> - The Republican party has sent letters challenging thousands of Franklin County students who are registered to vote absentee.
This mass challenge that was supposed to happen Thursday? How’d that work out? By the way, how does one register to vote absentee? Is this about registered voters in Franklin County who are students in other parts of the country? Students in Franklin County who are registered in their home county elsewhere in Ohio? What?
> [@](#):
>
> - The Franklin County Board of Elections has called or written an undetermined number of voters who obtained absentee ballots, challenging their addresses.
Undetermined appears to equal one.
> [@](#):
>
> - Even if they are counted, Franklin County’s absentee ballot forms are rigged in ways strikingly reminiscent of those in Florida 2000.
Whoever designed this ballot should be taken out back and shot. That said, pay attention while you vote! Why is this too much to ask?
> [@](#):
>
> - Franklin County’s right wing Elections Director is insisting on e-voting machines which have malfunctioned in at least two Congressional elections, and which have no paper trail.
This is a valid issue, and should be addressed no matter what happens in this election, whether their are questions or not. I am curious, though, which two Congressional elections did they malfunction in? Did the malfunction have an effect on the election?
> [@](#):
>
> - In four other Ohio counties, the notorious Diebold company, whose CEO Wally O’Dell has pledged to deliver Ohio’s votes to Bush, will provide the e-voting machines to count votes without any paper trail while using proprietary “secret” software.
Proprietary software is by definition secret. Quote marks are unnecessary. The CEO of Diebold is possibly the stupidest man in the world to have said what he did. For the issue of no paper trail, see above. Notorious?
> [@](#):
>
> - Twenty GOP-dominated Ohio counties have given wrong information to former felons about their voter eligibility.
This is certainly possible. Given the tone of this article, I see no reason to believe it without evidence. Nor am I familiar with Ohio laws on felons voting. (I only lived in Dayton for a year, and there were no elections while I was there.) Perhaps you could fill me in on those laws? Dispell some ignorance and all that?
> [@](#):
>
> - Franklin County, which normally cancels 2-300 registered voters a year for felony convictions, has sent at least 3500 cancellation letters to both current felons and ex-felons whose convictions date back to 1998.
As above. Do these cancellation letters state what the voter must do to show that they are allowed to vote? I got a cancellation letter once (for missing an election); all I had to do was contact the Election Commision to be placed back on the active list.
> [@](#):
>
> - Republican Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell has reversed a long-standing Ohio practice and is barring voters from casting provisional ballots within their county if they are registered to vote but there’s been a mistake about where they are expected to cast their ballot.
I’ve heard of this. Wasn’t this reversed?
> [@](#):
>
> - The Columbus Dispatch (which has endorsed Bush) and WVKO Radio have both documented phone calls from people impersonating Board of Elections workers and directing registered voters to different and incorrect polling sites.
Cite? I mean, I believe this could happen in limited numbers, but why would someone listen to a call out of the blue telling them where to go to vote? Doesn’t Ohio send out voter cards giving the polling place?
> [@](#):
>
> - In Cincinnati, some 150,000 voters were moved from active to inactive status within the last four years for not voting in the last two federal elections.
So? What happens if they show up to vote? Are they reactivated?
> [@](#):
>
> - Secretary of State Blackwell ruled that any voter registration form on other than 80-pound weight bond paper would not be accepted.
I’ve heard of this too. I _know_ this was reversed.
Look, I’m worried about Republican shenanigans, too. This sort of Chicken Little nonsense only leads to a boy who cried wolf attitude. Concentrate on real issues and leave the innuendo and speculation to the tinfoit hat brigade. I don’t think I’m naive to believe that the democratic process in this country is the glory of the world. We’re open, we’re transparent, and we’re able to bitch about it. The only result of ridiculous articles like this is to lead to a lack of faith in the process, thereby destroying it instead of improving it.
The electronic voting machines with no paper trail, or with no audit system at all are a real issue. It’s too late for this election. Whether or not there are any issues with the accuracy of these machines, this needs to be addressed, and it will be.
Voters should display the ability to use the brains they were born with. Democratic poll watchers should be in place to crack down on Republican poll watchers if necessary.
And, finally, this here is the kind of attitude from the other side that grates on my last nerve as well:
> [@Bricker](#):
>
> Too bad for the poor befuddled Democrats, who can’t get their illegal voters to the polls in such high proportions.
Why the assumption that Democrats are arguing only to get illegal voters to vote? Do you not believe that Democrats are honest and reputable citizens?
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### Author:  [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/16 "2004-10-30T14:20:20Z")
Well, shit. I did preview, but I must have only been looking at the quote tags. Sorry for the typo, **Liberal**.
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### Author:  [@BytopianDream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BytopianDream)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/17 "2004-10-30T14:27:02Z")
In related news, Pubbies and Cratters still wonder why the public is so apathetic and don’t feel like their votes count. One voter Kyle Broflavski had this to say, “I’m not going to vote for a douche or a turd sandwich. And my vote doesn’t count anyway!” Another voter fell asleep while listening to John Edwards and James van Praag make psychic announcements about who actually won.
Vote or you lose indeed. Looks like I’m voting Socialist or Libertarian again. Who’s got a penny for flipping?
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### Author:  [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/18 "2004-10-30T14:33:22Z")
It’s not in Ohio, and I am certain that it is not an official GOP-sanctioned action, but the perpetrator of [this](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/10/28/201853/53) deserves a special place in hell.
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### Author:  [@Leonard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leonard)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/19 "2004-10-30T14:42:26Z")
> [@Brainiac4](#):
>
> Nice strawman with the “murder is is technically illegal…”
Not a strawman, an analogy. He was just saying that the fact that a law is old doesn’t make it a bad law. Which is true. I don’t believe he was saying that anyone is actually trying to repeal murder laws.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [October 30, 2004, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-ohio-is-fucked-up/272012/20 "2004-10-30T14:47:27Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#):
>
> Well, shit. I did preview, but I must have only been looking at the quote tags. Sorry for the typo, **Liberal**.
No problem. Anyway, I don’t know the answer to your question, i.e., whether she’s on the ticket.
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