Pet Sounds has three pop masterpieces: God Only Knows, Wouldn’t It Be Nice and Sloop John B.
The rest may be well-crafted musical compositions, but God are they dreary! Asher’s lyrics do not wear well, actually… overrated from the beginning. There is a prevailing, heavy sound of tympani and low strings that makes me feel like I’m being sedated.
P.S. needs some Viagra! Pop/Rock is driven by the energy of Bass/Drums and lit up by bright arrangements and energetic vocals.
I agree with VCO3 that Sunflower and Surf’s Up are much better albums, however I don’t agree that Sloop John B. is incongruous… Yah, it’s some white California kids signing a caribbean folk song, but boy it sounds great.
I disagree. I’m only 30. I wasn’t around for Pet Sounds when it came out. I only started realizing its genius about four years ago. It’s not at all a “you had to be there” kind of thing. I think calling it “raw material” for “other’s synthesis” damning it with faint praise. It’s a finished product, through and through, and I can hardly think of any albums currently with such fantastic production and sound. It really was 30 years ahead of its time, and I am still dazzled at the sounds and quality of a recording made back in the 60s. There’s few records that sound that good even today. It’s such an intricate, soulful, and masterfully produced work.
I listen to *literally * everything, from dirty south hip hop to indonesian and javanese gamelan to primitive blues bootlegs to proto-ragtime to blahblahblah.
I’m not saying Pet Sounds is a bad record; I’m just saying it’s silly and unwarranted that it’s always the auto-“Best album ever”/best Beach Boys album, when I feel that they actually have three or four albums that are stronger.
And, not to set myself up as “Mr. Contrary Opinion,” but I recently decided that Isn’t Anything is a better album than Loveless. New Thread?
Pet Sounds is silly? You’re officially nuts in my book.
Anyhow, yeah. There are those who say Isn’t Anything is better than Loveless. You’re not really Mr. Contrary–there’s many who will agree with you. Personally, that record does nothing for me. In fact, I don’t like any MBV except for Loveless. (Just like I don’t really like much Beach Boys outside Pet Sounds and, perhaps, the uneven but still enjoyable Smile) But Loveless…when that thunderous snare beacons the opening of “Only Shallow,” I quite literally get a shiver up my spine. There are precious few records that do that to me–the one in the OP and this one are two.
Nothing on Isn’t Anything affects me in that way. There’s some decent songs on there, but they’re…I dunno…meh. They’re not transcendent or sublime in the way Loveless is. I suppose you can argue that in terms of pop structure, Isn’t Anything has better songs, but it doesn’t reach the heights of imagination that Loveless does. It’s like The Bends vs. OK Computer (or Kid A) The former has arguably better pop songs. The latter are truly groundbreaking and more interesting to listen to (at least for me.)
I also come from the perhaps not-so-popular perspective that the listener can be wrong. There’s several bands I don’t understand but respect the work of because I see that music lovers and critics have time and time again hailed the genius of it. For example, I just don’t get Pink Floyd. Doesn’t do a thing for me. But rather than dismiss them as “silly,” I just assume there’s something I simply don’t get about the music. For whatever reason, it doesn’t resonate with me, but I will defend Pink Floyd as being great artists, even though their work doesn’t resonate with me. Same with Husker Du. That’s probably the best example for me. I am completely clueless as to why this group is so revered in rock history. But it’s clear to me that they did have something and did something very special, and have a genius that I simply cannot connect with. I know they’re great, I really believe they’re one of the best rock bands ever, but I simply cannot hear it.
Perhaps that sounds weird to you. But I think there can be an element of objectivity in what is essentially a subjective undertaking.
By the way, this book may be a fun read for you. It’s Kill Your Idols: A New Generation of Rock Writers Reconsiders the Classics. Actually, reading the Amazon reviews of the book are just as fun.
No, no - Pet Sounds isn’t silly, the attitude that it’s automatically and unquestionably their best work is silly. I just don’t think it’s that cut-and-dry in the way it is with other bands like Wire or the Zombies, where there’s one album that’s head and shoulders above everything else that they did.
Again, Loveless is a great record, and without it we wouldn’t even be talking about MBV. It’s one of the more important and influential records of the past 30 years, and it’s definitely their most important record. I guess I’ve just decided that I like Isn’t Anything more - “Soft as snow (but warm inside)” has somehow taken the place of “Only Shallow” for me in that it gives me that same effect - rat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat-tat and then RIDICULOUSNESS that gives me the shivers. Hell, I might just like the record because I got so burnt out on listening to Loveless over and over! Hell, I had Isn’t Anything for 10 years before it clicked with me; I always thought it was an unlistenable mess (and it kind of is), and then after 10 years I put it on and it just clicked.
I bought the book back when it came out (i’m a HUGE fan of Jim Derogatis), but I was bummed at how toothless most of the “New Generation” was - wow, the Doors suck? Never heard that one before! Wings’ Ram isn’t really a good album? No way! Bob Marley’s Exodus is overrated dreck? Shit, you might as well have taken on Carole King’s Tapestry, you lazy bastard! Jim Derogatis - one of my favorite shit-slingers - attacks Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band with all the vigor and aggression of a neutered hamster. It’s one of the laziest things I’ve ever read.
I kept wanting someone to tear the ultimate critical sacred cow, Captain Beefheart’s Trout Mask Replica, a new asshole. I wanted someone to call out Can for being the boring white funk band that they really were (don’t worry, I love them - but let’s be honest with ourselves!). I wanted someone to call out white critics for fawning over Public Enemy and NWA because they wanted to look culturally aware. The book simply contains none of that, or anything approaching that.
TMR is a personal sacred cow of my one, dudecicle. I just love it because I love it; I didn’t know I was “supposed” to love it until I had already left my last boyfriend for it and had three children by it. And Can, “boring white funk”? You must be listening to a different Can.
Anybody read the 33 1/3 Series books on either Loveless or Pet Sounds? Links are to the Amazon listings for the books. I have read two of the 33 1/3 series - the ones on Exile on Main St. and The Ramones - both were worth reading but for different reasons I won’t hijack this thread any more to go into. Just curious.
VC03 - I enjoy your rants, but don’t feel much need to engage hard. You obviously invest a lot of time in music - as do a bunch of Dopers, including me. I appreciate your comments on Pet Sounds and on certain days, I do see where your POV has merit. For the most part, though, I just love the album and enjoy letting the production wash over me.
To me, the first, most important aspect to art is the connection - do I like it? Pet Sounds delivers that to me in spades in ways I could never hope to articulate with a reasoned, detailed exegesis. It simply works on me on all levels.
Puly - fwiw, when I first heard Only Shallow (only about 4 months ago, btw - what can I say, I just never took the time) it had a similar effect. Just wow.
I’m a HUGE Wire fan, and there’s no way Pink Flag is head and shoulders above Chairs Missing. Of the first three, my favorite is 154, but that’s mainly for reasons of nostalgia and how I got into the band. Chairs Missing is a better album, though. As for Pink Flag, once again, great album, but there’s much debate to be had which of the first three Wire albums are the best. Not one is clearly better than the others. Personally, though, I listen to A Bell is A Cup… more than Pink Flag.
I only first heard it three or four years ago myself, on Yahoo! Launchcast of all places. I was laying on the couch reading a book when the song came on and I thought to myself “What is this beautiful noise?” Turns out it was My Bloody Valentine–a band I was well aware of, just never got around to listening to. (Actually, I did know them for their cover of Wire’s “Map Ref…” [my favorite Wire song], but was hardly impressed by it. In fact, I still don’t like that cover.)
I will admit, though, it took me about two or three spins of Loveless to really get into it. It was a challenging listen (those washes of guitars slowly going in and out of tune were really disconcerting at first), yet captivating enough that I kept coming back to it.
I strongly disagree with your superficial assessment of “I’m waiting for the day”. “Don’t talk” is a pretty love song and a pop gem. “I’m waiting for the day” sounds like a pretty love song, but in the end is not. In the end the guy who was professing all that love is taunting the object of his lost affection.
Emotionally disfunctional, creepy shit IMO. Not “the same song twice”, not “a throwaway”, not “filler”. YMMV.
