# Man Shoots/Kills 18 Yr Old Daughter by Accident **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100 "2013-06-16T00:28:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/1 "2013-06-16T00:28:17Z")
“The case remains under investigation. However, early reports suggest Scott Hazelbaker pointed the handgun at his daughter and pulled the trigger without knowing a bullet was loaded in the gun,” according to an Ankeny police statement issued Saturday." [http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130615/NEWS/130615004/1001/](http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130615/NEWS/130615004/1001/) ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/2 "2013-06-16T00:54:34Z")
There’s not really much to say about that. However, this thread was up at the top of MPSIMS along with these two for a minute: [I’m going to miss being a Dad…](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=693906) [Father’s Day for Shitty Dads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=693906) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/3 "2013-06-16T01:02:36Z")
So what’s the spin on this? If she had been armed with her own gun, she could have defended herself? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/4 "2013-06-16T01:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > An Ankeny man has been charged by authorities with fatally shooting his daughter in what initially appears to have been a tragic accident. In other news, language medics are busy trying to save the life of the expression “tragic accident”, after its repeated mangling in recent news stories. “It’s not looking good”, a source has told local media, “it’s like the expression has been completely drained of its semantic value. We’re hoping for the best, but it’s touch and go at this point. Of course, even if the expression survives, it may have to spend the rest of its life as a euphemism.” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/5 "2013-06-16T01:25:08Z")
Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is no accident. It’s criminal negligence _at least_. I’m inclined to think manslaughter or deliberate. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/6 "2013-06-16T01:32:57Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is no accident. It’s criminal negligence _at least_. I’m inclined to think manslaughter or deliberate. This. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/7 "2013-06-16T01:37:50Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > In other news, language medics are busy trying to save the life of the expression “tragic accident”, after its repeated mangling in recent news stories. “It’s not looking good”, a source has told local media, “it’s like the expression has been completely drained of its semantic value. We’re hoping for the best, but it’s touch and go at this point. Of course, even if the expression survives, it may have to spend the rest of its life as a euphemism.” I’m fairly certain there’s never been any point in the modern history of the English language where referring to something like this as “an accident,” tragic or otherwise, would be considered incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/8 "2013-06-16T01:42:09Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is no accident. It’s criminal negligence _at least_. I’m inclined to think manslaughter or deliberate. Criminal negligence and accident are not mutually exclusive. Neither are manslaughter and accident. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/9 "2013-06-16T01:42:21Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’m fairly certain there’s never been any point in the modern history of the English language where referring to something like this as “an accident,” tragic or otherwise, would be considered incorrect. Agreed. There was a recent thread on this issue. I feel that an accident can be something that was unforeseeable (which this was not) or something unintended (which this apparently was). ---
**Author:** ![panaccione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/94ad74/32.png) [@panaccione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panaccione)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/10 "2013-06-16T01:42:28Z")
When I first saw this, I checked the post date to see if it was a zombie because I swear I heard this story before… No such luck. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/11 "2013-06-16T03:15:11Z")
I can get away with killing anyone by saying I didn’t know the gun was loaded. Just so long as I’m not mad at them or nobody knows I’m mad at them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/12 "2013-06-16T03:32:51Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > When I first saw this, I checked the post date to see if it was a zombie because I swear I heard this story before… No such luck. Someone killing someone else with a gun they think isn’t loaded is one of the more common “killed by accident with a gun” stories. It’s also exactly why even a non-gun user like myself knows that one of the most basic gun safety rules is to always treat the gun as loaded. And to never point a gun and pull the trigger at anything you don’t want shot. Guns aren’t toys, and treating them as such is a major reason why so many Americans get killed by them in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/13 "2013-06-16T04:01:19Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So what’s the spin on this? If she had been armed with her own gun, she could have defended herself? He had good reason to believe that the gun wasn’t loaded because the government has been buying up all the ammunition, or he thought she was a hooker. Either way, he’s in the clear. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/14 "2013-06-16T04:58:18Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/15 "2013-06-16T05:07:46Z")
Interesting turn of phrase in the linked article: > [@](#): > > Emily Hazelbaker’s death is the seventh homicide in Polk County in 2013. If it’s an accident, can it be homicide? I’m unclear on the technicalities, but I don’t recall seeing accidents described as homicides before. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/16 "2013-06-16T05:26:47Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger is no accident. It’s criminal negligence _at least_. I’m inclined to think manslaughter or deliberate. First rule of gun safety is to treat the gun as if it is always loaded, even if you are sure it is not. The gun is always treated and handled as if it is loaded and ready to fire. Second rule of gun safety is to never point the gun at anything you do not intend to shoot. This isn’t an ‘accident’. Pointing a gun at someone _and_ pulling the trigger is murder. I am a gun owner and would be considered a gun nut by most posters here, but damn! There is more to this story than there seems. Or dad is a fucking idiot who murdered his daughter. Manslaughter is just too weak for this. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/17 "2013-06-16T06:05:47Z")
While I agree this rises to the level of criminal negligence, I’m not sure there’s much point to actually charging the guy unless they think it wasn’t really an accident. Losing his daughter is way more of a punishment, lesson, and deterrent than prison could ever be. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/18 "2013-06-16T06:06:18Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > If it’s an accident, can it be homicide? I’m unclear on the technicalities, but I don’t recall seeing accidents described as homicides before. By definition: _Homicide_ is the most general all-inclusive word for “one person killing another person”, regardless of the cause or circumstances or anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/19 "2013-06-16T06:41:27Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > If it’s an accident, can it be homicide? I’m unclear on the technicalities, but I don’t recall seeing accidents described as homicides before. Homicide doesn’t necessarily mean murder. Homicide just means it’s an act of one human killing another - it’s one of the most general ways to categorize a type of death (e.g. homicide, suicide, natural death). [sub]ETA: I should have refreshed the page before posting, as **Senegoid** beat me to it. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/20 "2013-06-16T06:42:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Kodie Smith, who lives a few buildings down from where the shooting took place, said he had spoken with Scott Hazelbaker last week. Smith said they talked about their pet huskies. Hazelbaker also told Smith about his daughter. > > “ **He talked about how his daughter was his prized possession** ,” Smith said. “I never met her, but she must have been pretty great. That’s not creepy at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100.md?page=2)