# Man Shoots/Kills 18 Yr Old Daughter by Accident **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 16, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100 "2013-06-16T00:28:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/21 "2013-06-16T07:30:31Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > There is more to this story than there seems. Or dad is a fucking idiot who murdered his daughter. > > Manslaughter is just too weak for this. I lean toward the “fucking idiot” hypothesis, given how often I’ve seen variations on this story. Idiot points an “unloaded” gun at someone and playfully pulls the trigger, “unloaded” gun goes off killing the victim. When people insist on treating guns like toys, this kind of thing is just what happens. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/22 "2013-06-16T07:46:12Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > I am a gun owner and would be considered a gun nut by most posters here, but damn! There is more to this story than there seems. Or dad is a fucking idiot who murdered his daughter. > > Manslaughter is just too weak for this. You are not a nut. I don’t own a gun, but even I know you should always assume a gun is loaded and never aim it if you don’t intend to shoot it. I lean towards the negligent idiot hypothesis. - I believe the majority of gun owners are rational, careful people who know how to handle a gun safely. I am calling only this particular individual involved in shooting his daughter a negligent idiot. ---
**Author:** ![MN\_Maenad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e95f7d/32.png) [@MN\_Maenad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MN_Maenad)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/23 "2013-06-16T12:36:37Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > While I agree this rises to the level of criminal negligence, I’m not sure there’s much point to actually charging the guy unless they think it wasn’t really an accident. Losing his daughter is way more of a punishment, lesson, and deterrent than prison could ever be. People always say this in these kinds of situations, but I’m not buying it. Seems like a way for someone to get away with murder to me. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/24 "2013-06-16T13:01:49Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So what’s the spin on this? If she had been armed with her own gun, she could have defended herself? If everyone was mandated to carry guns, then we’d be taught gun safety in schools and situations like this would be prevented. or The girl probably screamed when she saw the gun, which startled him and made him pull the trigger. If guns were more prevalent in our society, she wouldn’t have been scared. or Death is the price we pay for freedom. Emily wouldn’t have wanted it any other way. ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/25 "2013-06-16T13:13:02Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > That’s not creepy at all. I came in to comment on this very thing. Sounds like something weird was going on to me. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/26 "2013-06-16T13:48:22Z")
Wouldn’t a more accurate title for this post be “Man kills 18 year old daughter through stupidity”? I see no accident here. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/27 "2013-06-16T14:14:12Z")
I honestly feel like pointing a gun at someone, whether you “know” it’s unloaded or loaded or whatever you “know” is at the very least threatening someone with deadly force (whatever that official charge would be), and at worst is automatically just attempted murder. Actually pulling the trigger is outright attempted murder as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/28 "2013-06-16T14:20:03Z")
For it to be attempt murder or murder, you have to prove that the guy pulling the trigger intended to kill. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/29 "2013-06-16T14:38:17Z")
Please don’t flame me. I’m posing a hypothetical, not saying this is what happened. What if one of her friends comes forward with allegations of molestation against the father? Like, maybe on the day before the shooting, Emily told one of her friends she was going to report her father to the police. Would the police still treat this as a “tragic accident”? Or would the existence of a potential motive change the nature of the investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/30 "2013-06-16T14:39:05Z")
I can understand why you might not want to store your gun unloaded, with a trigger locked, in a safe, with the ammunition in another safe in a different room like some of the ant-gun folks want, but is it really necessary to have a round in the chamber? I can’t imagine a situation where you don’t have time to rack the slide, and this would prevent “my gun went off when I was “cleaning” it / horsing around / my kid found it” type accidents. Even though I don’t have kids I keep the chamber empty of my personal defense rifle, as I don’t feel comfortable with a round in the chamber, safety on or no. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/31 "2013-06-16T15:24:58Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For it to be attempt murder or murder, you have to prove that the guy pulling the trigger intended to kill. No, you don’t. Deliberately aiming a gun at someone and deliberately pulling the trigger without checking whether the gun is loaded is literally the textbook example of depraved-heart murder. ---
**Author:** ![Taomist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/53a042/32.png) [@Taomist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Taomist)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/32 "2013-06-16T16:54:46Z")
Death By Stupidity. Criminal negligence at the least, and as he has proven he can’t handle a gun properly, no more guns for him, ever. Or for anyone else that has proven they don’t know how to handle one. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/33 "2013-06-16T17:12:22Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Wouldn’t a more accurate title for this post be “Man kills 18 year old daughter through stupidity”? I see no accident here. What do you think the word “accident” means? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/34 "2013-06-16T18:37:10Z")
> [@](#): > > ac·ci·dent noun \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\ > > Definition of ACCIDENT > > 1. **a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance** > **b : lack of intention or necessity** : chance \ > > 2. a : **an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance** > b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious \ > c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought > d —used euphemistically to refer to an involuntary act or instance of urination or defecation Seems no matter how stupid it was, it still falls within several definitions of “accident.” ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/35 "2013-06-16T18:48:27Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, you don’t. Deliberately aiming a gun at someone and deliberately pulling the trigger without checking whether the gun is loaded is literally the textbook example of depraved-heart murder. Where did you study law? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/36 "2013-06-16T18:52:49Z")
These situations occur far too often. it’s is my opinion that in situations such as this the shooter (if they are an adult) AND the owner of the gun (if it’s not the same person) should be charged with murder. I support responsible gun ownership. THIS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP. Literally, the first three rules I learned about guns (and I am of the understanding this is fairly universal) were: [ul] [li]All guns are loaded[/li][li]You do not point a gun at anything you are not ready to destroy[/li][li]You do not put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot[/li][/ul] That shit is just _basic_. Elementary school kids are taught better. This guy, if it was in fact an accident, is either so mentally incompetent he should be living in a group home, or so negligent he should NEVER be in possession of a gun. I think he should be charged with murder, not because his losing his daughter isn’t enough punishment, but because there needs to be a clear message in society that we will not tolerate irresponsibility with deadly weapons. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/37 "2013-06-16T18:58:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Seems no matter how stupid it was, it still falls within several definitions of “accident.” No accident. [Negligent Discharge.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negligent_discharge) [From This site.](http://www.shouselaw.com/pc246-3.html) > [@](#): > > California Penal Code 246.3 PC > Penal Code 246.3 PC, California’s “negligently discharging a firearm” law, prohibits willfully firing a gun or BB device in a grossly negligent manner that _could_ result in death or injury to a person". \*\* \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/38 "2013-06-16T19:20:16Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > No accident. Legal definitions don’t necessarily coincide with the literal meaning of a word. As long as the result was unintentional, this falls under the dictionary definition of an accident, no matter how stupid, careless, or negligent it was. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/39 "2013-06-16T19:47:23Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > These situations occur far too often. it’s is my opinion that in situations such as this the shooter (if they are an adult) AND the owner of the gun (if it’s not the same person) should be charged with murder. I support responsible gun ownership. THIS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE GUN OWNERSHIP. > > Literally, the first three rules I learned about guns (and I am of the understanding this is fairly universal) were: > > [ul] > [li]All guns are loaded[/li][li]You do not point a gun at anything you are not ready to destroy[/li][li]You do not put your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot[/li][/ul] > > That shit is just _basic_. Elementary school kids are taught better. This guy, if it was in fact an accident, is either so mentally incompetent he should be living in a group home, or so negligent he should NEVER be in possession of a gun. I think he should be charged with murder, not because his losing his daughter isn’t enough punishment, but because there needs to be a clear message in society that we will not tolerate irresponsibility with deadly weapons. The problem is that if you asked this guy the week before he killed his daughter if he was a responsible gun owner, he would almost certainly have said yes. Nobody thinks they’re irresponsible with their firearms any more than anybody thinks they’re a shitty driver. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100/40 "2013-06-16T21:24:41Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Legal definitions don’t necessarily coincide with the literal meaning of a word. As long as the result was unintentional, this falls under the dictionary definition of an accident, no matter how stupid, careless, or negligent it was. Exactly. Whether it was accidental or not, whether and what he **can** be charged with, and what punishment one thinks he **should** be hit with in one’s idea of a just Universe, are only somewhat related. In rare agreement on my part with the philosophy of the folks on the pro-gun side of things, I concur that in such situations, the existing laws ought to be enforced to the max: the D.A. should charge him with every last applicable statute, and go for the maximum sentence for each. Three reasons for this: 1. Kids aren’t their parents’ private possessions. Crimes are crimes against the state and the citizenry as a whole, not just against the actual victim. He has lost his daughter, but a lot of other people lost her too. It’s not just a private loss, and the law should not treat it as entirely or primarily his private loss. 2. It’s always worth seeing whether, if it became normative to throw the book at those responsible in such accidents, it would change the behavior of what one might describe as fatally ditzy gun owners. 3. It would be a test of the pro-gun side’s theory that enforcing existing laws would make a difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-kills-18-yr-old-daughter-by-accident/661100.md?page=3)