# Man shoots prowler, finds out he killed his son **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2012, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453 "2012-10-02T03:42:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/61 "2012-10-03T17:23:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I understand this argument, and I think it’s internally consistent. I still think it’s wrong. No, scratch that; I still disagree with it. Here’s why. > > I’m willing to kill someone in protection of myself. But not my own child, because _my child’s life is more valuable to me than my own life is_. If my son had lived to grow up, he’d be in his early twenties now, old enough for such a situation to be plausible (though hopefully he’d have more sense than the dead kid in the news story). I can easily imagine making the decision to use deadly force against the masked figure approaching me with a knife with evidently felonious intent, and I think I’d be just as devastated as the father in the story, even though (assuming the facts given us are correct) I do not believe he did anything wrong. **Skald** I did not know you had lost a child. As a father of two young boys, I am very sorry to hear that. It’s my worst fear and I have nightmares about losing one or both of them all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/62 "2012-10-03T17:35:42Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I am going to construct a tape measure based on that unit of measurement. I don’t want to be around when you try to calibrate it. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/63 "2012-10-03T17:48:28Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > It’s a really sad congruence of events. I feel like I really want to throw the blame on someone but I can’t find anyone blameworthy. At least not yet. We have only the current news story to go on, and it doesn’t have much detail. I hope later some facts will come to the surface so we can make sense of this mess. I can’t think of any possible explanation that would make me feel better about it. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/64 "2012-10-04T01:45:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Its simple. If he stabs you its 21 feet. If you shoot him its 22. See? I always overcomplicate these things. > [@tdn](#): > > I am going to construct a tape measure based on that unit of measurement. I’m just going to stand behind you while you work this out. ---
**Author:** ![scratch\_llll](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@scratch\_llll](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch_llll)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/65 "2012-10-05T05:09:27Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Well, not just that. I talked to an adherent of a minority religion at one point, and he maintained that if you are willing to use a certain degree of force or punishment against someone, you must _also_ be willing to use it against your own children, in similar circumstances, or you are _immoral_. Many people in the conversation expressed horror, and said that it’s normal and natural to think one’s OWN child was misbehaving for some fixable reason, and that they would go easy on their own child. But the religious person steadfastly – and, I think, righteously – maintained that if you are not willing to see it done to your own child, you must not do it to someone else’s child. Some people interpreted this as savagery toward his own children, but I think he was advocating mercy toward everyone’s children – or at least even-handedness. This is the most illogical malarky I’ve ever heard. If it were adhered to then the whole world would be victim to attackers in every circumstance. As has been said, it is natural for a parent to care more for thier children than a stranger or thier OWN life. What if it were someone killing your kid? Let your kid be killed because you wouldn’t want someone else to kill your kid killing someone elses kid? Internal consistency my ass. Everybody in the victim/attacker situation is someones kid. Would you want your kid to be killed because he treated his attacker as his kid? If my son were trying to break in somewhere and “came at” someone with a knife then I would understand his being shot. I wouldn’t like it but it would be understandable and logical. If the person were a confident enough shot to hit his shoulder I would be grateful but that anyone could expect that is illogical in a being attacked situation. If it were me being attacked and I did not have the responsibility of protecting my wife and daughter from possible death then I would likely give my life in a struggle to save his. Thankfully I did not raise a mentally or criminally deranged son. That can happen to the best of people and it is indeed sad. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/66 "2012-10-05T08:06:53Z")
This isn’t an original thought, I read this question elsewhere but it struck a nerve: did the boy have a life insurance policy taken out on him? and the girl? Adopting a kid does not a saint make. He was fifteen and was adopted four years ago. Different people have different ideas about financial planning. (I know that’s flippant; it’s a defense mechanism.) Stranger things have happened. And before folks say “How could you?” mine and my brother’s price was the Social Security checks sent out each month, that we never benefitted from, because of the death of our father. The boy was supposedly well-adjusted so this behavior was abberant.(sp) The scenerio presented was…what if the father said “Hey! Let’s play a prank on your aunt…” and everything fell into play. Not saying that’s what happened at all. But sour grapes make whine. I also have to say, tho—if you don’t have a gun (in the suburbs) you can’t shoot it. A trigger finger can punch out 911. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2012, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/67 "2012-10-05T08:22:49Z")
> [@Becky2844](#): > > The boy was supposedly well-adjusted so this behavior was abberant.(sp) The scenerio presented was…what if the father said “Hey! Let’s play a prank on your aunt…” and everything fell into play. That very thing occurred to me almost immediately. But according to police statements the father has been crying incessantly and throwing up for days and generally carrying on in such an emotional way that I would think even the best of actors would have a hard time keeping up convincingly for such a long time. Plus he’s a highly regarded guy in the community for his love of his students and theirs of him and a long history of good works toward others, and it’s hard to believe he would visit such devastation on the rest of his family. Plus, it turns out the boy may well have come from a rough background as he was adopted only four years ago as his father was about to be sent off to prison (for what I don’t know) and he and his sister were adopted just as they were about to be sent to an orphanage. So that gave him eleven years of apparently being raised by a single parent who eventually became prison fodder, and I doubt it was a happy and wholesome eleven years. So all in all, I’m inclined to give the father the benefit of the doubt. Plus I’m sure the police will be looking into things like life insurance policies payable to the father, aunt and so forth. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/68 "2012-10-07T17:57:19Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > **Skald** I did not know you had lost a child. As a father of two young boys, I am very sorry to hear that. It’s my worst fear and I have nightmares about losing one or both of them all the time. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/69 "2012-10-07T18:06:58Z")
> [@scratch\_llll](#): > > If my son were trying to break in somewhere and “came at” someone with a knife then I would understand his being shot. I wouldn’t like it but it would be understandable and logical. If the person were a confident enough shot to hit his shoulder I would be grateful but that anyone could expect that is illogical in a being attacked situation. If it were me being attacked and I did not have the responsibility of protecting my wife and daughter from possible death then I would likely give my life in a struggle to save his. Thankfully I did not raise a mentally or criminally deranged son. That can happen to the best of people and it is indeed sad. It’s off topic, but a couple of things about this bug me. First, a gunshot wound to the shoulder is a lot more dangerous than you’re thinking it is; you can quite easily bleed out from one. Second, that hypothetical extremely competent shot is not going to be aiming for the shoulder in the first place, because competent marksman are always taught to aim for center of mass. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/70 "2012-10-08T16:16:08Z")
Why am I thinking of a ghillie (sp) suit right about now? And laughing? That is, of course, if the kid did it for a prank. If he had other in mind, he got about a tenth of what he had coming. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/71 "2012-10-08T17:50:38Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I suspect he was just trying to scare her as part of some poorly thought-out prank or revenge stunt. It doesn’t sound like he actually got into the house, but was just lurking around outside. Probably as well thought out as this prank: [Sasquatch stunt takes a tragic turn on highway](http://www.dailyinterlake.com/news/local_montana/article_86a9d38e-f058-11e1-b794-001a4bcf887a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/72 "2012-10-08T17:58:16Z")
_Someone_ did not know about the [masked man fallacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masked_man_fallacy). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/73 "2012-10-09T00:54:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Probably as well thought out as this prank: > Sasquatch stunt takes a tragic turn on highway Tragic? Seems to be just Darwinism at work. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/74 "2012-10-09T06:02:48Z")
If I understood the facts correctly, the deceased was adopted?? If that is so, then I’m of the impression that he’s one of those psycho kids with a chip on his shoulder for the whole adoption thing. My final vote: kid was a Menendez wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/75 "2012-10-09T07:39:06Z")
> [@the lone cashew](#): > > When you have a gun, you have a responsibility to fire responsibly. I think retreating from an assailant is a responsible thing to do, and should be done. > > It is not clear whether retreat was an option in this case, but as underlined by the fact that it was the son who was shot should cause one to wonder if it indeed was the last course of action. You need to explain why the identity of the son underlines the lack of clarity of whether retreat was an option. Why is it more likely that retreat was an option in this scenario? What about the kid’s identity as the man’s son makes you doubt the idea that retreat was not an option? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2012, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/76 "2012-10-09T16:43:20Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Somewhat off-topic: … the son was adopted. What are youse people’s thoughts on news organizations including this bit of information in stories like this? Irrelevant? Relevant? Harmful to the adoption world? A fair warning to those thinking about adoption? Or what? IMO, if the story is presented at all, the adoption should be mentioned. It isn’t the job of a news service to decide what spin is appropriate, or what “political correctness” is to be served. Yes, mentioning the adoption can be considered unfair to “the adoption world,” but not mentioning it could be considered unfair to the “birth-parentage world.” Frankly, it would seem grossly dishonest not to mention the adoption. The 15-year old victim was adopted at age 11 from a troubled home. When I noticed that, the episode suddenly seemed much more plausible. ETA: I’m not inferring the kid was a psychopath. It’s enough to understand that the familial ties of someone adopted at age 11 are much weaker than those of a birth child. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/77 "2012-10-13T17:35:38Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > You need to explain why the identity of the son underlines the lack of clarity of whether retreat was an option. Why is it more likely that retreat was an option in this scenario? What about the kid’s identity as the man’s son makes you doubt the idea that retreat was not an option? No, he doesn’t. Because if you shot your son you’d be thinking the same thing. You’d constantly be second guessing yourself. That’s the point. All of your logic for shooting the guy makes the implicit assumption that you don’t care about the identity of the attacker, but, in fact, unless you are some horrible monster, you do care. Unlike in other situations where you could convince yourself that the person was inhuman swine trying to kill you, you now have to face the fact that it was not. It was someone you loved. You know they were human. We all think the lives of some people are more important than others. The only difference between this and what we label bigotry is that we think we have a legitimate reason to value our children more than other people, while we do not have a legitimate reason to value people who look like us more than other people. Heck, this is why we are looking for some sign that the boy really was up to no good, as we want something that will remove the ambiguity of guilt for the father. If the son was about to rob the aunt, for example, then he wouldn’t have to think about whether or not he could have afforded to wait a couple seconds more, or to have quickly hidden somewhere. If he can blame the son, he can avoid having to concern himself with his own human foibles. Then again, there are others who absolutely want to blame the father because it makes them feel better about the chances of something similar happening to them. They don’t want to accept that the same human foibles apply to them, too. Why knowing that your child would never be stupid enough to dress like a violent robber is not sufficient comfort, I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/78 "2012-10-14T16:15:36Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I would not be surprised if it turned out that he was planning to break in and steal from the aunt. Sometimes criminals do victimize people they know. After all, if you’ve been an invited guest in a house, it’s easy to case the place and see where the valuable stuff is. > > Very sad for the father, though. I’m sure that even if his son was committing crimes, he still loved the boy and it must be a horrible feeling to realize you killed your own son. Seconded. ---
**Author:** ![Nazarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nazarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nazarene)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/79 "2012-10-14T16:22:50Z")
Why didn’t either the father or the sister just call the cops? The shooter had no reason to even go outside. He wanted to be John Wayne. These are the consequences. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453/80 "2012-10-14T17:30:38Z")
I’m sure he felt the threat was far too immediate given that his sister said her house was being broken into at that very moment. Tell ya what though, should you ever find your home being broken into in the middle of the night do please feel to alert the police, whereupon you can roll over and go back to sleep confident in the ability of the police to respond and (nonviolently, I presume) apprehend the intruding burglar/rapist/torturer/murderer before any harm can come to you. Then all will end peacefully and happily in **JoN** land. In the meantime, having had my home broken into in the middle of the night and the intruder frightened off by virtue of the fact I was able to arm myself, I’ll opt for the John Wayne approach over the think-of-the-bad-guy-and-hope-the-cops-arrive-before-something-bad-happens approach every time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-shoots-prowler-finds-out-he-killed-his-son/636453.md?page=5)