# Man, this brings tears to muh eyes. Anti-Austerity protests raging in Europe. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471 "2010-09-29T14:52:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/21 "2010-09-29T17:04:17Z")
[QUOTE=carm] So no one is vastly underpaid, or overpaid. Sounds like a good system to me. [/QUOTE] Oh, no doubt. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/22 "2010-09-29T17:09:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > [@Shodan](#): > > > > Perhaps he is being proactive, in case the GOP regains control of one or more houses of Congress and begins to try to reduce the deficit > > Yep, they’re just gonna keep cutting taxes until it works. Or spending ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/23 "2010-09-29T17:12:04Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > Yep, they’re just gonna keep cutting taxes until it works. > > Or spending Heh, I read this as “Or [they’re just gonna keep] spending [until it works]” Which seems extremely plausible, given past behavior. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/24 "2010-09-29T17:12:22Z")
Brevity is the soul of wit. Regretably, it is not so effective for complex questions of economic or social policy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/25 "2010-09-29T17:14:03Z")
Where is the debate? Hello, Le Jacquelope is anybody out there? Is this thread a tribute to Pink Floyd? ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/26 "2010-09-29T18:05:26Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > If the government doesn’t have enough money to pay for things how are strikes supposed to increase the amount of money the government has? The strikes are intended to force the government to tax the rich and the bankers more instead of making cuts that hurt the working class - the people who had the least amount of say in causing this economic mess. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Jacquelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Le\_Jacquelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Jacquelope)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/27 "2010-09-29T18:07:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Where is the debate? Hello, Le Jacquelope is anybody out there? Is this thread a tribute to Pink Floyd? Sorry, I assumed that the debate would just settle around whether they’re striking for a good reason, or if they will succeed in achieving their goals. Clarified. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/28 "2010-09-29T18:13:22Z")
[QUOTE=Le Jacquelope] The strikes are intended to force the government to tax the rich and the bankers more instead of making cuts that hurt the working class - the people who had the least amount of say in causing this economic mess. [/QUOTE] They (presumably the Europeans) want to tax their rich more? Gods…that’s hilarious. What’s the upper limit in France these days? What about Spain and Greece? Do they have a real expectation that if they tax their rich more that this will mean that they (the good workers and peasants of Europe) will actually get more out of it? That they really won’t have to make any cuts or sacrifices themselves, and that they can just dump all the problems on ‘the rich’? And then next time? And the time after that? How much blood can you squeeze from the turnip? -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/29 "2010-09-29T18:25:31Z")
A quick glance at the [wiki table](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world) shows that France tops out at 50% and nobody taxes more than 60%. Which is frankly less than I would have expected. I think that turnip can stand to bleed a little more. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/30 "2010-09-29T18:28:27Z")
It probably can bleed a bit more, though I seriously doubt that upping the taxes on ‘the rich’ is going to bring in the revenue that the good people of Europe think it will. Still, more power too em…I say tax those rich fuckers until they howl. Hopefully it will have the expected effect of making them move themselves and their capital over to the US where they belong. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/31 "2010-09-29T18:32:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > That they really won’t have to make any cuts or sacrifices themselves, and that they can just dump all the problems on ‘the rich’? And then next time? And the time after that? How much blood can you squeeze from the turnip? > > -XT It’s not a turnip. That’s the point. They aren’t getting less revenue than expected because the rich don’t have any more money: they are getting less revenue than expected because everyone (even the rich) are evading taxes. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/32 "2010-09-29T18:34:21Z")
That’s the point in GREECE…but I don’t think that’s the case in most of those other countries. In Greece, of course, complaining that the rich aren’t paying their taxes is pretty ironic, considering that this seems to be the normal mode for just about everyone… (ETA: And how would upping the taxes on the rich help in any case? If they simply made everyone pay the taxes they are supposed too then they wouldn’t be having the issues they are having. Upping the taxes will just mean that there would be more to ignore, no?) -XT ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/33 "2010-09-29T18:35:45Z")
Did you read my post? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/34 "2010-09-29T18:38:45Z")
This one? [QUOTE=Ludovic] It’s not a turnip. That’s the point. They aren’t getting less revenue than expected because the rich don’t have any more money: they are getting less revenue than expected because everyone (even the rich) are evading taxes. [/QUOTE] If so, then yes…I read it. This thread isn’t only about Greece, however. It’s happening in several European countries. -XT ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/35 "2010-09-29T18:44:54Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > Note that these are all public sector union employees, disrupting public services (paid for by tax money) to get more money for themselves out of the state coffers. This is political leverage that private sector employees do not have. Perhaps unsurprisingly, public sector employees are[heavily overpaid](http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2010/08/overpaid_federa.html) compared to equivalent private sector ones. False. That statistic can only be arrived by ignoring differencing in education levels. In fact, they earn an average of 3.75% less. Nor do the benefits offset this difference. > [@](#): > > State and local government workers are compensated 3.75 percent less than workers in the private sector, according to a study released on Wednesday. > > The research group Economic Policy Institute compared workers completing similar tasks in both sectors and found that state government employees are compensated 7.55 percent less than their private counterparts, while local government employees earn 1.84 percent less. > … > Private sector workers, who have seen their 401K retirement accounts suffer heavy losses in the crisis, have become increasingly vocal in their criticism of benefits they believe they fund through taxes. > > But the EPI found that the benefits public employees receive “do not offset the lower wages they are paid.” > > [cite](http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN1517035220100915) As to the OP, yes, Americans are much more timid about demanding fair compensation because they have been raised by corporate propaganda to believe that less government is always good, without mention of the caveat that corporations will fill in whatever vacuum the government leaves. However, I expect that as the pro-Wall St free-market solutions of the Democrats and Republicans start to fail and food stamp benefits are cut, there will be real protests and riots–so much that even the mainstream media will not be able to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/36 "2010-09-29T18:51:07Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > > > Yep, they’re just gonna keep cutting taxes until it works. > > Or spending Don’t be silly. Republicans don’t cut spending. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/37 "2010-09-29T18:52:40Z")
> [@Le\_Jacquelope](#): > > I wish we had the stones to do this in America. Anti-Austerity protests would of course require the US to, you know, have some Austerity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/38 "2010-09-29T18:53:36Z")
I’ve always said that a vacation in France never feels complete unless there is a strike going on. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/39 "2010-09-29T18:59:18Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > They’ve been at it all summer - Greece was paralysed by a truckers’ strike, France had mass walkouts, and in Britain we tutted loudly and had another cup of tea. It’s not to the topic, but I have to ask - is a tut the same thing as a tsk? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2010, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471/40 "2010-09-29T19:04:00Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > > [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > > > Or spending > > Don’t be silly. Republicans don’t cut spending. I guess we will see. Someone is going to have to, and sooner rather than later. On a related note, I see that here in the good old USofA we have something vaguely equivalent going on this weekend, despite the notable lack of anything resembling austerity in our spending ([cite](http://action.onenationworkingtogether.org/index.php/content/splash/)). Based apparently on the same sort of logic as in Europe. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-this-brings-tears-to-muh-eyes-anti-austerity-protests-raging-in-europe/555471.md?page=3)