# Man vs Society books where society is right? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 27, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950 "2007-02-27T23:43:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/1 "2007-02-27T23:43:28Z")
There’s a large number of books with the “man vs. the world” theme, and of the ones I know, the “man” has always been portrayed as right, even if he ultimately fails. (There are also plenty of film examples.) Have there been any where the “man” is ultimately proven wrong? ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/2 "2007-02-27T23:49:07Z")
Go Ask Alice pops into my mind. She should have listened to all the squares! ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/3 "2007-02-27T23:50:40Z")
Crime novels? Like Godfather, the Tom Ripley series, the Dexter series… ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/4 "2007-02-27T23:51:57Z")
Isaac Asimov’s story “The Dead Past” comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/5 "2007-02-27T23:56:00Z")
BTW, “man vs society” is actually one of the short story conflicts - novels usually are more complex than than (though films aren’t). ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/6 "2007-02-27T23:56:55Z")
“I Am Legend” I think fits. The hero is defending a society that doesn’t exist anymore and is actively killing the members of the new society. He is a monster. ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/7 "2007-02-27T23:58:38Z")
“I am Legend”? ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2007, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/8 "2007-02-27T23:59:47Z")
“I am Late in My Posting?” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/9 "2007-02-28T00:21:28Z")
_Crime and Punishment?_ ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/10 "2007-02-28T00:41:17Z")
Does “A Beautiful Mind” Count? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/11 "2007-02-28T01:18:00Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW, “man vs society” is actually one of the short story conflicts - novels usually are more complex than than (though films aren’t). I dunno; I can think of several good examples of man vs. society novels. Any of the dystopian classics, for starters: _1984_, _Brave New World_, _Farenheit 451_, etc. In fact, that particular conflict is probably better suited to a novel than a short story: “Society” is a very large and complex entity, and takes a lot of development (assuming that the society the protagonist is rebelling against isn’t our own, familiar one). ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/12 "2007-02-28T01:30:06Z")
The Stars My Destination, maybe? Gully Foyle isn’t the most sympathetic protagonist. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/13 "2007-02-28T04:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=pokey] Go Ask Alice pops into my mind. She should have listened to all the squares! [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t that be another one where “the man” was right? I don’t know how similar the book and movie are, but “The Mosquito Coast” sort of fits (he isn’t directly fighting against society, though). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/14 "2007-02-28T04:48:20Z")
Camus’ ‘‘The Stranger’’? Suppose an argument could be made either way. What about ‘‘Notes from Underground’’ by Dostoevsky? ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/15 "2007-02-28T05:11:17Z")
Easy. 1984. -FrL- ---
**Author:** ![Sefton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Sefton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sefton)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/16 "2007-02-28T05:14:39Z")
As **BrainGlutton** mentioned, **Crime and Punishment** is a good one. So is **The Demolished Man** by Bester. Kafka said that “In the fight between you and the world, back the world,” but I can’t think of any of his novels where society is necessarily right. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/17 "2007-02-28T17:39:33Z")
Just about any book with an antihero protagonist might fit the OP. Or a villainous lead. Stephen King’s _The Shining_ comes to mind. Or Ayn Rand’s _Atlas Shrugged_ (Roark was a narcissistic asshole, after all). Or consider the collected X-Men comics… mutants are _dangerous_, after all! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/18 "2007-02-28T18:27:17Z")
I came here to say **1984** too. Maybe “society is right” isn’t exactly how to put it, but definitely we’re shown how shallow and hypocritical Smith’s fantasies of being a defiant rebel hero were. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/19 "2007-02-28T18:32:29Z")
What, “he who wins is right”? Society wins in **1984** , but that doesn’t mean Society was right. In any case it would be a case of “two wrongs don’t turn a pile of manure into a rose bush”. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2007, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950/20 "2007-02-28T20:17:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sefton] Kafka said that “In the fight between you and the world, back the world,” but I can’t think of any of his novels where society is necessarily right. [/QUOTE] He never figured society was right; he just knew how to place his bets. There are plenty of stories where society outlasts the protaganist, as mentioned by the OP, but not so many where society is the side you root for. Some might consider “The Catcher in the Rye”, but that’s a fairly mixed message - another case where neither side is necessarily shown to be right. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/man-vs-society-books-where-society-is-right/393950.md?page=2)