# Management types - help me solve a workplace problem **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 6, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576 "2011-01-06T03:50:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/61 "2011-01-07T05:33:42Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Since you are not there, and I am, allow me to re-phrase your remarks in order for them to be accurate: > > Inexperienced but educated younger workers of varying levels of maturity are appropriately delegating work to some lazy-ass, unmotivated, unskilled long-term employees who go out of their way to intimidate whomever they can in order to avoid actually doing the work for which they are appropriately compensated. > [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > By the way, I don’t mean to imply that _every_ NP is poisoning the environment. Some are outstanding (and are frequently praised and occasionally rewarded). The toxic element is maybe 25% of the total. OK, now that you have clarified the problem allow me to quote from a boss I learned a lot from. **So how long are you going to let them slide and make you miserable, and affect your paycheck before you write them up?** Write them up. Write them up again if it repeats. Attendance is perhaps the easiest of all personnel problems to fire someone for, I mean either they are there, or they aren’t. Institute a blanket policy and enforce it. This one ain’t brain surgery. > [@elbows](#): > > If you want fast and effective change I recommend this approach. It seems you have a couple of people teetering on the edge of being justifiably fired, for attendance issues. > > Which ever one next calls in sick, when they come in the next day, and in front of as many people as possible, just lose your shit. Just flat out go off on them in an uncharacteristic fashion. > Raise your voice, and be sure to throw out all the issues you’re fed right up with, especially the inability of them to work like a team, and the lateness and attendance issues. Be sure to mention, that you’ve tried to be patient and understanding but you have had your fill of it, anyone who cannot get along, work together without conflict as a team, will also find themselves without a job. Storm into your office and slam the door. Stay in there a long time, then leave the office in a huff and let them stew for the rest of the day. > > You won’t recognize them the next day. They will get your message, loud and clear. Your behaving out of character, will reinforce that you’ve had your fill of it, I promise. > > Yeah, I know, it sounds harsh, but it’s fast and effective. One loud, public outburst/firing and, voila, problem solved. This is the single worst idea in this entire thread. Lesson 1 for a manager. If talking to one employee do the following Praise in public Kick ass in private You never, never, never kick one employee’s ass in public. Lose your shit in public at one employee and everyone in the group will think you are an asshole and turn away from you including the ones that you thought you had the support of. > [@msmith537](#): > > And I don’t care about the professional opinion of someone who does not have the credentials required to perform the job. No matter how good a job the support staff does (or doesn’t do), they are not qualifed to perform the job of the professionals. That’s why they are support staff. I have a good friend that is a legal secretary. After 30 years with one company she decided to move to another firm. At her going away party some of the comments were along the lines of: [Senior Partner] Sandy taught me how to do billing [Another SP] Me too [Partner] Yeah and she taught me how to do pleadings. Just because she does not have a JD that does not mean that some seriously smart attorneys did not learn from her. > [@](#): > > The janitorial staff at your office will be happy you think so. So back during WWII there was a Navy airbase in Iceland. The base was commanded by Capt. Daniel Gallery (later Admiral)(He was also the guy responsible for the U-505 being captured on the high seas, and later put on display in Chicago) When a plane from the base sank the first sub, Capt Gallery ordered a party and gave a speech. In his speech he mentioned that every man on the base had a part in sinking this sub including the Captain of the head (the janitor that cleans the bathrooms on the base) He was greeted by a WTF from the assembled throng. He explained it this way. If the Captain of the head had left the heads on the flight line dirty and disgusting then the pilot of the PBY might have waited until he was up in the air and then used the on-board head in the PBY. If the sub had been sighted while he was aft with his pants around his ankles it would have been impossible for him to run a successful attack against that German sub. so yeah the janitor is important. At the car dealer where I was a service I treasured my janitors. One of them was particularly bright and hard working, so I helped him start a company that got the contract from our dealership for all of our porters services, detail and new car prep. It is amazing what can happen if you work with people. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/62 "2011-01-07T05:49:13Z")
Who is more important - the salespeople who bring in the sales, or the accounting clerks who deposit the money in the bank? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/63 "2011-01-07T09:44:00Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > I have a good friend that is a legal secretary. After 30 years with one company she decided to move to another firm. At her going away party some of the comments were along the lines of: > [Senior Partner] Sandy taught me how to do billing > [Another SP] Me too > [Partner] Yeah and she taught me how to do pleadings. > Just because she does not have a JD that does not mean that some seriously smart attorneys did not learn from her. Yes, and that is the sort of environment the OP wants to create. But it’s a two-part problem: 1. The support staff need to want to do a good job 2. To do that, they also need to feel they are respected and appreciated for their efforts But the fact is, ‘Sandy’, no matter how good of a job she does, is not on the professional track to partner. Some of the other posters don’t seem to grasp that. And part of her job is going to be dealing with arrogant young attorneys right out of law school who think they are hot shit. > [@Rick](#): > > So back during WWII there was a Navy airbase in Iceland. The base was commanded by Capt. Daniel Gallery (later Admiral)(He was also the guy responsible for the U-505 being captured on the high seas, and later put on display in Chicago) > When a plane from the base sank the first sub, Capt Gallery ordered a party and gave a speech. In his speech he mentioned that every man on the base had a part in sinking this sub including the Captain of the head (the janitor that cleans the bathrooms on the base) > > He was greeted by a WTF from the assembled throng. He explained it this way. If the Captain of the head had left the heads on the flight line dirty and disgusting then the pilot of the PBY might have waited until he was up in the air and then used the on-board head in the PBY. > If the sub had been sighted while he was aft with his pants around his ankles it would have been impossible for him to run a successful attack against that German sub. > > so yeah the janitor is important. At the car dealer where I was a service I treasured my janitors. One of them was particularly bright and hard working, so I helped him start a company that got the contract from our dealership for all of our porters services, detail and new car prep. > > It is amazing what can happen if you work with people. Yes, it is amazing. However the Captain of the Head, while necessary, is not as important as the highly trained air crew who took out the sub. But the point is (and I think Capt Gallery would agree) that a good leader makes the janitor feel their meager contribution is as important (even if we all know it really isn’t). > [@elbows](#): > > If you want fast and effective change I recommend this approach. It seems you have a couple of people teetering on the edge of being justifiably fired, for attendance issues. > > Which ever one next calls in sick, when they come in the next day, and in front of as many people as possible, just lose your shit. Just flat out go off on them in an uncharacteristic fashion. > Raise your voice, and be sure to throw out all the issues you’re fed right up with, especially the inability of them to work like a team, and the lateness and attendance issues. Be sure to mention, that you’ve tried to be patient and understanding but you have had your fill of it, anyone who cannot get along, work together without conflict as a team, will also find themselves without a job. Storm into your office and slam the door. Stay in there a long time, then leave the office in a huff and let them stew for the rest of the day. > > You won’t recognize them the next day. They will get your message, loud and clear. Your behaving out of character, will reinforce that you’ve had your fill of it, I promise. > > Yeah, I know, it sounds harsh, but it’s fast and effective. One loud, public outburst/firing and, voila, problem solved. I’m pretty sure that throwing a temper tantrum just makes you look like a weak and ineffectual manager. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/64 "2011-01-07T12:26:01Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > \ > This is the single worst idea in this entire thread. > Lesson 1 for a manager. If talking to one employee do the following > Praise in public > Kick ass in private > You never, never, never kick one employee’s ass in public. Lose your shit in public at one employee and everyone in the group will think you are an asshole and turn away from you including the ones that you thought you had the support of. > \ > It is amazing what can happen if you work with people. **Rick** , you’re my new hero. **elbows** , I’m going to resist going all-caps on you…but never, ever lose your shit in public. Ever. Nothing good will ever come of it. Ever. You can deliver the same message quietly and in private, one-on-one if needed, and I guarantee you there is a greater chance it will be heard than if you go carrying on with a temper-tantrum. Think about when you were a kid and your mother was going defcon one on your ass. Did that really make you listen to her more closely? Particularly at one previous job, I was always in the office pretty early and pretty late. Which means I saw a whole lot of the mail room staff, the janitors and cleaning staff, the low-level IT support guys, secretaries for some of the Big Wigs, etc. I tend to be pretty talkative anyway, so we’d often end up making small talk about god knows what. Got to be on a first-name basis with pretty much the entire company, even though work-wise I only dealt with one other department. Went to the going away party when one of the janitors quit to move back closer to his parents (I think he was from Jamaica). Two things happened. First - I got the best damn service you could imagine. When new PCs or software was rolled out, guess who got it first. My area was spotless. When new prototype handsets came out, guess who got one first. Had any problem with a particularly important package that needed to be sent? No worries, the mailroom helped out. Now, I didn’t treat people nice just to curry favor - but it really pushed home to me the realization that treating everyone with respect and courtesy - _especially_ the support staff - pays off big-time. I’ve seen managers get only the bare minimum from their support staff, and boy are they wasting a valuable pool of resources. And it pays off not just in work productivity, but also in the friendships and experiences. That company I was at? Fast forward about two years, when I was leaving the firm to take up another position elsewhere overseas. As I was packing up my desk, I got a tap on the shoulder. It was the entire cleaning staff crew. Here are guys and ladies barely making minimum wage - and they had pooled their money together to buy me a jersey from my favorite football team, they had all signed it, and they had a thank you and farewell card as welll. To get a thank you from the crew of people that I felt the biggest need to say thank you to…that moment, and those gifts, meant more to me than any and all other various thank yous and farewells combined. T ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/65 "2011-01-07T13:19:26Z")
I know it isn’t the same, but it sounds like what happens with Drs and nurses sometimes. IME- Show that you are willing to learn. Show that you are willing to do some crappy jobs, as well as the nicer ones. i.e. I ALWAYS set out and cleared my own trolleys and cleaned up any body fluid spills I had been responsible for- do that a few times when most people leave it for the cleaners and nurses, and people will _offer_ to do it for you, instead of complaining behind your back about the mess you make. Ask politely when you do delegate. When you have a variety of tasks that need done, work with your support staff to find out who can best do what, and when- don’t unilaterally decide on a timetable and assign tasks. “I’m going to be busy suturing in cubicle 3, but obs need doing on 5, and 7 needs a cast- any takers?” works much better than “Jody check 5’s obs, Jenna, 7 needs a cast, Sam come and help me in 3. NOW.” Give your professional some management training, and give you NPs a chat about how you have noticed that not everyone is pulling their weight and the company doesn’t have room for dead weight. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/66 "2011-01-07T13:39:08Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > Inexperienced but educated younger workers of varying levels of maturity are appropriately delegating work to some lazy-ass, unmotivated, unskilled long-term employees who go out of their way to intimidate whomever they can in order to avoid actually doing the work for which they are appropriately compensated. > [@TriPolar](#): > > I expect your problem to continue so long as you maintain this attitude. Dead-on-balls accurate, as Marisa Tomei said. If that’s the way you really think of the workers, there’s no chance you’ll be able to motivate them to improve. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576/67 "2011-01-07T13:42:48Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > But the point is (and I think Capt Gallery would agree) that a good leader makes the janitor feel their meager contribution is as important (even if we all know it really isn’t). You _like_ dirty toilets? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/management-types-help-me-solve-a-workplace-problem/566576.md?page=3)