# Manchurian Candidate **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 11, 2004, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541 "2004-07-11T06:39:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/21 "2004-07-12T12:21:08Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > Yes, I am playing a game of solitaire… hey there’s the Queen of Diamonds … > _Manchurian Candidate is the kindest warmest bravest film I have ever known_ > > huh … must have dozed off for a second there. > > * * * > > **Muad’Dib** Would you include “Pelican Brief” in that same heavy-handed Denzel Washington style? I would. (Although it might also be considered a Julia Roberts film). Although “Pelican Brief” was somewhat interesting, I found it weird that 2 US Supreme Court Justices get assassinated within a week and NO ONE except a college law professor and his student try to find a connection??? That is a bit much !! > > * * * > > **rjk** Besides having tainted your mind about the hydrangea, do you think the movie has skewed your perception of Angela Lansbury? When watching “Murder She Wrote” think of her as Mrs Iselen … spooky huh? “The Pelican Brief” was absurd in all sorts of ways. For starters, you have a 90 year old, sick, feeble Supreme Court Justice who needs a respirator to breathe. So, how does the high-priced hit man kill him? He SHOOTS him, of course! I mean, why try to make it look like the old guy died of natural causes, when you can SHOOT him, and make it ridiculously obvious that he was murdered! If I were the evil corporate tycoon who’d hired that assassin, I’d demand a refund! ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/22 "2004-07-12T12:44:58Z")
> [@porcupine](#): > > Some movies should just _not_ be remade, and that’s one of them. This was my initial reaction, but I’ve since become quite excited to see what kind of modern take we get. The original is in my top 5 favorites of all time, so it’s not like I’ll go into the theater expecting something that will actually _beat_ it. But it’s fun to see such a classic dressed up again.\* And come on. Meryl Streep as Raymond Shaw’s mother? They could not have scored an American actress of greater pedigree. Liev Schreiber is excellent, Denzel- always commanding to watch, Jonathan Demme has more than proven his flair for suspense. . . I dunno. Seems like they lined their ducks up pretty well. \*For one thing, it’s not like they’re slaughtering it with camp a la _Stepford Wives_ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/23 "2004-07-12T13:38:12Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > it looked like they are portraying Denzel Washington’s character (the same as the Frank Sinatra character in the original film) as apparently mentally unbalanced. That’s quite a change from the original film, where the army had no problem believing Major Marco’s story, but perhaps more realistic, given the lack of supporting evidence. Well. it wasn’t _exactly_ without evidence. At least one other member of Marco’s platoon, Cpl. Melvin, had reported recurring nightmares and the two men independently picked out high-ranking communist officials from a photo-array. Denzel does overplay the “one man against the world” bit, though. I’ll check the remake out sooner or later. Probably later. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/24 "2004-07-12T14:09:33Z")
> [@Kaotic Newtral](#): > > BTW, I’ve owned the dvd of the original movie since it came out and I have a question. Is it just my experience or do women detest this movie? ‘Manchurian Candidate’ and ‘Cool Hand Luke’ are two movies that I’ve never found a woman that would sit and watch them. It’s not like they’re extremely ‘masculine’ movies either. The original _Manchurian Candidate_ is on my list of favorite movies. _Cool Hand Luke_ isn’t, but I have watched it several times through, and don’t despise it (although I am more than a little incredulous that anybody, particularly anybody of young Paul Newman’s physique, could eat 50 eggs like that and not be sick). My _Manchurian Candidate_ question, as long as I’m here typing, regards Senator Iselin. Near the end of the film, when Evil Mrs. Iselin is explaining things to Raymond, she tells him that, at the crucial moment at the convention, her husband will give a rousing speech that has been worked on for years “here and at the Kremlin” that will sweep them into powers “that will make martial law look like anarchy!” I have always assumed that the Senator is a complete dupe of his wife, unaware of what’s really going on–so how does he have this carefully planned speech ready? Is he: a) not a dupe after all? b) programmed too? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/25 "2004-07-12T14:11:16Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **rjk** Besides having tainted your mind about the hydrangea, do you think the movie has skewed your perception of Angela Lansbury? When watching “Murder She Wrote” think of her as Mrs Iselen … spooky huh? Not if you’ve already fingered Mrs. Fletcher as a massive serial killer. I tell you what though: that relationship she had with Raymond would have made Oedipus uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/26 "2004-07-12T14:16:14Z")
A couple of years ago I had a fear that somebody would try to re-make the Manchurian Candidate and my nightmare has come to pass. The only saving grace, potentially, is the fact that Demme is directing it. There are not too many directors who could even think about trying to redo such a classic. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/27 "2004-07-12T14:54:03Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > My _Manchurian Candidate_ question, as long as I’m here typing, regards Senator Iselin. I have always assumed that the Senator is a complete dupe of his wife, unaware of what’s really going on–so how does he have this carefully planned speech ready? Is he: > > a) not a dupe after all? > > b) programmed too? He wasn’t programmed. They painted him as pretty much a complete dolt (almost cartoonishly so) and just did whatever she told him to do. On his own, it seemed Iselin couldn’t have distingushed a Communist from a member of the John Birch Society. ---
**Author:** ![Kizarvexius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/da6949/32.png) [@Kizarvexius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kizarvexius)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/28 "2004-07-12T14:55:04Z")
**Miss Mapp** , he’s pretty much aware of what’s going on. But he’s an amoral attention whore who doesn’t mind being his wife’s puppet. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/29 "2004-07-12T14:56:26Z")
P.S. She probably wrote the speech for him. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/30 "2004-07-12T15:03:57Z")
But my point is, if he’s a dupe, how does he know that speech–have it all rehearsed and ready for the crucial moment–without also knowing what’s going to happen at the convention? Even if he is an idiot, I would think he’d have some objections to the presidential nominee being assassinated unless he’s in on it beforehand. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/31 "2004-07-12T15:09:53Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > But my point is, if he’s a dupe, how does he know that speech–have it all rehearsed and ready for the crucial moment–without also knowing what’s going to happen at the convention? Even if he is an idiot, I would think he’d have some objections to. . . unless he’s in on it beforehand. Yes, he’s onto it beforehand. Do you remember when Raymond’s mother told Raymond how it was all planned- that the Senator would cradle the blood-soaked Presidential nominee in his arms right there on the podium, and give the aforementioned speech? Everything was rehearsed for maximum effect. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/32 "2004-07-12T15:12:35Z")
> [@Miss Mapp](#): > > But my point is, if he’s a dupe, how does he know that speech–have it all rehearsed and ready for the crucial moment–without also knowing what’s going to happen at the convention? Even if he is an idiot, I would think he’d have some objections to > > the presidential nominee being assassinated > > unless he’s in on it beforehand. There’s no doubt the Senator was in on it, too. Just look at how he was sweating up a storm at the convention. Every other time he was in front of an audience he was totally at ease, but not at the convention. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/33 "2004-07-12T15:13:49Z")
> [@Moody Bastard](#): > > Yes, he’s onto it beforehand. Then that would mean he’s not a dupe, but a co-conspirator. ---
**Author:** ![Mal\_Adroit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df788c/32.png) [@Mal\_Adroit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mal_Adroit)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/34 "2004-07-12T15:20:18Z")
Right. Not a dupe, but definitely a dope. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/35 "2004-07-12T15:23:05Z")
> [@Moody Bastard](#): > > Right. Not a dupe, but definitely a dope. Well, no argument there… ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/36 "2004-07-12T15:54:56Z")
Here’s an interesting (and rather surprising) [early review](http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/elsewhere/index.html) of the film, FWIW. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/37 "2004-07-12T16:12:47Z")
> [@](#): > > One trivia note: > > The original “Manchurian Candidate” featured a significant role by Khigh Dhiegh, who would become best-known as the villainous “Wo Fat” in the “Hawaii Five-O” series. > > Despite his having no Oriental heritage (born Kenneth Dickerson in New Jersey), he excellently portrayed various Yellow Peril types for over two decades. He also played Judge Jen-Jieh Dee in Nicholas Meyer’s wonderful and criminally forgotten TV Movie **Judge Dee and the Monastery Murders**. He wanted to make it a series, but I suspect they balked at the cost and the exclusively Asian cast. They tried to turn it into a modern-day detective series (still starring Dhiegh), but it didn’t work. Not surprising – putting Dee in modern-day America is like doing the same to Sherlock Holmes. I’d love to see more Dee (there was a brief British series, that I’ve never seen, and there was talk of a movie, but it never happened). (End Hijack) Just for the record, I didn’t particularly like the original movie (heresy, I know, but it’s true), but I suspect that like most of the recent run of pointless, updated remakes ( **The Truth about Charley, The Jackal, Psycho** , etc.) this will be far, far worse than the original. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/38 "2004-07-17T10:15:15Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > Secondly, from the trailer, it looked like they are portraying Denzel Washington’s character (the same as the Frank Sinatra character in the original film) as apparently mentally unbalanced. That’s quite a change from the original film, where the army had no problem believing Major Marco’s story, but perhaps more realistic, given the lack of supporting evidence. No offense, but I don’t see how the combination of the character being mentally unbalanced and a lack of supporting evidence makes it realistic. In the original film, Marco was credible largely because he was so stable (although, as **Bryan Ekers** points out, there was some evidence). If someone appears to be, or actually **is** , unbalanced, why _would_ anyone believe such an outlandish story from him? “Realistic” would be the army higher-ups challenging him while he stays cool and collected. If Denzel wanted to chew scenery, he should have played Raymond. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2004, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/39 "2004-07-17T11:45:49Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > No offense, but I don’t see how the combination of the character being mentally unbalanced and a lack of supporting evidence makes it realistic. In the original film, Marco was credible largely because he was so stable (although, as **Bryan Ekers** points out, there was some evidence). . I’m going to have to go back and watch it again, but I seem to remember that no one believes Marco at first and that they take him off active duty for a while. They think he \*has \* come unhinged, as does Marco himself. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2004, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541/40 "2004-07-29T14:55:30Z")
Well, I got to see the new version of **The Manchurian Candidate** last night and I was very unimpressed. It has been a while since I saw the original,so I don’t feel comfortable comparing it to that, except that I know I really enjoyed the original and this one really not so much. The main problem I had with it is that I couldn’t figure out what tone it was trying to set, it played almost like a political thriller satire. Very strange and not all that interesting or entertaining. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manchurian-candidate/254541.md?page=3)