# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/221 "2017-10-03T02:51:12Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > 500/600 is for the M4. The M16 is 550 for point and 800 for area due to the longer barrel. That’s for aiming on a flat trajectory. I’m not sure how much 32 floors of elevation would effect that. > > Of course for a police officer shooting back only the point target number is relevant. Ah thanks. You’re right, it’s been a while. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/222 "2017-10-03T02:54:55Z")
I’m guessing that something went south in his personal life - money or love - and he was just somehow good enough to cover it up for a while. Another possibility is that maybe something went wrong with the wiring in his brain. Maybe a psychosis, maybe a malignant tumor in the wrong area. A third possibility? We’ll just never really know. RIP the victims and thoughts for their families. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/223 "2017-10-03T03:23:27Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > accuracy can and does take a hit No, it doesn’t. > [@anomalous1](#): > > and it some cases, the power, from using a ‘suppressor’ Neither this ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/224 "2017-10-03T03:34:01Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > No, it doesn’t. > Neither this The H&K MP5 used a suppressor that was designed to reduce velocity of supersonic ammo to subsonic while maintaining reliable functioning with or without the suppressor. Very much the exception rather than the rule. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/225 "2017-10-03T03:42:54Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > No, it doesn’t. > Neither this Sorry pal, Wrong: unless you have found a magical one, they do have an impact of weapon performance and dynamics. It will shift the point of impact and it also slows the bullet on some weapons depending on how the suppressor is manufactured (modern baffle type or ones with or without rubber slats/wipes). This affects performance. You are adding something that is in essence an aftermarket part to a stock weapon. It will affect performance. Actually there is a slight increase in bullet speed as long as the bullet moves smoothly past the baffle, afterward, velocity drops. You can compensate all you want, it will not fire the same as the stock weapon, and each time it is mounted it will be different. If you use a suppressor you must weigh whether or not to use subsonic ammunition or not, which WILL affect performance, from the ammunition itself, otherwise the suppression qualities of the device and accuracy are affected. The vast majority of weapons have their Point of Impact (POI) altered when using them. There are exceptions, but in reference to the situation this post is about, not big enough. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/226 "2017-10-03T03:49:09Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > How on earth would anyone on here know. > [@ExTank](#): > > This is the SDMB; someone, somewhere, on this message board, absolutely has the answer to that question. > > Believe me, we have someone who’s in law enforcement, or works intel, is some kind of analyst, who knows the answer. > [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Oh stop it. > [@Okrahoma](#): > > [What Does It Mean When ISIS Claims Responsibility For An Attack? : The Two-Way : NPR](http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/24/529685951/what-does-it-mean-when-isis-claims-responsibility-for-an-attack) > > "Experts who closely follow the Islamic State say that in general when it comes to attacks in the West, an ISIS claim of responsibility usually means there was some sort of connection. But the attack might have been planned, funded and directed by ISIS — or it could just have been inspired by the group’s propaganda. > > **Has ISIS ever claimed responsibility for attacks that turned out to be totally unrelated to it?** > > “We have not been able to find a real lie from ISIS,” said Katz, who follows the group’s social media obsessively with a critical eye. “Despite the fact that they are a terrorist organization, they want to provide their followers and supporters with authentic information.” > > Joscelyn said he can’t think of an example of an outright false claim by ISIS in the U.S. and western Europe. There are plenty of exaggerations — on death tolls, for instance — and the statements shouldn’t be assumed to be true. (For instance, the ISIS claim for the attack on a concert in Manchester didn’t describe a suicide bomber, and had slightly inflated numbers of the dead and wounded.) > > But in the West, “when ISIS claims something … usually there’s something there,” Joscelyn said." > [@Stanislaus](#): > > On ISIS and claiming credit for stuff they didn’t do - > > Apparently they never used to, but now do. From the [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates?page=with:block-59d259e0e4b00d657809cf6f#block-59d259e0e4b00d657809cf6f): Told ya. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/227 "2017-10-03T04:04:09Z")
ABC reports that the shooter also had a camera set up in his room. > **[47 guns, loaded high-capacity magazines found in Vegas shooter's hotel suite...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/guns-loaded-high-capacity-magazines-found-vegas-shooters/story?id=50228093)** > > At least 59 people died and 515 others were injured. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/228 "2017-10-03T04:10:22Z")
> [@treis](#): > > It’s clear that he didn’t get up yesterday, snap, and go on a spree. There was at least several days of foresight and planning. Unfortunately, the reality is that it’s not that hard to kill a lot of people when they are massed together. Given what we know, it’s lucky that the death toll is limited to 50 so far. a) It could just be me but I’m surprised that its taken this long to have a spree-killer target something like this; seriously. We had a local dress up like the Joker and shoot up a theater and there have been other attacks on crowds but I really would have expected someone to have tried this years ago. Given the venue and the crowd size/arrangement you could be the worst shot in the universe and just spray-and-pray. I have been very cautious about where I attend concerts and where I am in the crowd at most shows. And as for sporting events, I rarely go to those at all. b) I’ll be curious how the injuries/deaths break down; direct (gunfire) and indirect (trampled etc). Being old enough to remember the Who disaster and the Great White thing I will not be surprised in a minority of the carnage is from the actual attacker/nut-job. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/229 "2017-10-03T04:14:54Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The H&K MP5 used a suppressor that was designed to reduce velocity of supersonic ammo to subsonic while maintaining reliable functioning with or without the suppressor. Very much the exception rather than the rule. In this case at least I don’t think it would have made any difference. Firing into a crowd of 40,000 people from an elevated position this would have been a massacre with a .22 carbine. Sensational tweets aside, it really might have increased the death toll if he had used one. They were able to locate and stop him so quickly because you could see the muzzle flashes from 500 yards away. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/230 "2017-10-03T04:20:00Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > a) It could just be me but I’m surprised that its taken this long to have a spree-killer target something like this; seriously. We had a local dress up like the Joker and shoot up a theater and there have been other attacks on crowds but I really would have expected someone to have tried this years ago. Given the venue and the crowd size/arrangement you could be the worst shot in the universe and just spray-and-pray. I have been very cautious about where I attend concerts and where I am in the crowd at most shows. And as for sporting events, I rarely go to those at all. > > b) I’ll be curious how the injuries/deaths break down; direct (gunfire) and indirect (trampled etc). Being old enough to remember the Who disaster and the Great White thing I will not be surprised in a minority of the carnage is from the actual attacker/nut-job. Sound reasoning. 59 killed, 527 injured. There is no way that all of them are from bullets. I don’t care how good or bad of a shot that scumbag was. There must have been a lot of trampled people as well, since media outlets and video are showing people crouching and huddling in place. Either way, none of it would have happened if that P.O.S. didn’t do what he did anyway. Only time will tell. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/231 "2017-10-03T04:29:23Z")
This is just so goddamn frightening. This man (so far) had no background in this type of behavior. 23 guns? All the ammo? Retired, girlfriend, financially secure? What in the world could his thought pattern had been? There no notes of suicidal thoughts, political or religious extremism. Could it be a brain tumor? A medical condition? I’m serious. I don’t think we’ll find any concrete answer ever on this one. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/232 "2017-10-03T04:33:49Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > There are no restrictions any more, any one anywhere, any time, can run into a store and then strut around armed to the teeth for ‘protection’. This is false. For a guy who’s next sentence started with “And of course, they can lie and spread fake news (it’s already started) …” I’d strongly encourage you to strive to make statements based on facts in the future. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/233 "2017-10-03T04:36:22Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Sensational tweets aside, it really might have increased the death toll if he had used one. They were able to locate and stop him so quickly because you could see the muzzle flashes from 500 yards away. Given that Mandalay Bay has privacy windows, the shooter might have been harder to spot if he had been further back from the window. But what gave away his exact location was the [hotel’s smoke detectors](http://uproxx.com/news/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-smoke-detector/) responding to what was curling up out of the ends of the barrels. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/234 "2017-10-03T04:36:49Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > In this case at least I don’t think it would have made any difference. Firing into a crowd of 40,000 people from an elevated position this would have been a massacre with a .22 carbine. > > Sensational tweets aside, it really might have increased the death toll if he had used one. They were able to locate and stop him so quickly because you could see the muzzle flashes from 500 yards away. a .223 will do more damage than .22 regardless of what it is fired from, at that distance. The blast baffling (1st) of it could also wear out under rapid fire, unless it was really high quality and made for the rifle used on, which eliminates some of its sound suppression quality. Those things will heat up very quickly when used with rapid fire and can warp after a magazine or two. This part is of course, speculative. Spray and pray will still work, but the impact and velocity may be compromised, which may also reduce the damage done by the rounds. I suspect a man that owned that many firearms would know whether or not a suppressor would work and obviously had the means to get one, why didn’t he use one? Lets all just see how the story turns out. How about that guy running still holding his beer? Damn, talk about priorities. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/235 "2017-10-03T04:39:46Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > This is just so goddamn frightening. This man (so far) had no background in this type of behavior. 23 guns? All the ammo? Retired, girlfriend, financially secure? > > What in the world could his thought pattern had been? There no notes of suicidal thoughts, political or religious extremism. Could it be a brain tumor? A medical condition? I’m serious. I don’t think we’ll find any concrete answer ever on this one. Yeah, it sucks. Usually these f\*ckhead shooters have giveaways. We’ll have to see. Someone will dig up something, hopefully. I’d like to think these behaviors are predictable… yikes. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/236 "2017-10-03T04:45:36Z")
Was that video real with the guy giving the finger? Couldn’t have been at the same time. Gotta be a fake audio remix or something. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/237 "2017-10-03T04:51:18Z")
No idea if it was real, if it was he either had some huge stones or was obliviously drunk. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/238 "2017-10-03T04:56:25Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > THANK YOU! Its as if they don’t realize that accuracy can and does take a hit and it some cases, the power, from using a ‘suppressor’ (THE PROPER TERM, CLINTON) and it would still be quite audible given the caliber of weapons used. What an idiot. Couldn’t wait to turn this into something political instead of a tragedy, which is purely what it is, regardless of the tool used to do it. I have come to understand after being educated by firearm enthusiasts on SDMB that one should use completely neutral and gunsmith correct terminology, or else face a withering rant about how the usage of the wrong term negates the entire argument… Jus’ saying. By the way, now would be a good time to ask why a “good guy with a gun” didn’t stop this madness? ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/239 "2017-10-03T05:01:51Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Heard/saw some report early on that he had converted to Islam 30 years ago. > Pretty girls have been controlling older guys for thousands of years. Uh, what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2017, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/240 "2017-10-03T05:18:48Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I have come to understand after being educated by firearm enthusiasts on SDMB that one should use completely neutral and gunsmith correct terminology, or else face a withering rant about how the usage of the wrong term negates the entire argument… Jus’ saying. My biggest complaint about Clinton’s tweet wasn’t that it used incorrect terminology. It’s that it was utterly stupid and ignorant. A silencer would reduce the noise of a center-fire rifle report from ~165 dB to ~135 dB. It’s a not-insignificant reduction, but it does not become whisper-quiet like Hollywood often shows it to be. Clinton is almost certainly ignorant of this fact, as demonstrated by her tweet. > [@China\_Guy](#): > > By the way, now would be a good time to ask why a “good guy with a gun” didn’t stop this madness? Because he shot himself before they got there? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=13)