# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/341 "2017-10-04T18:26:00Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’m gonna guess that y’all have no first hand experience with crazy people. Reports are now saying along with the arsenal of firearms he had an arsenal of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medicine and vallium. Madsircool’s messageboard psychoanalysis notwithstanding, he was either under the care of a psychiatrist or abusing psychotropic drugs without a prescription. His final weeks are now being described as a ‘descent into madness’ that included extreme weight loss, slovenly dress and appearance, erratic behavior, etc. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I believe, after readying through various news sources including LVMPD press conference, that he was found within about 15 minutes. He had a camera in the hallway, so he could see approaching police/hotel security. There was an exchange of gunfire through the door and then everything stopped. Police waited for appropriate breaching equipment and did not rush the door as long as the gunfire remained silent (it did). It’s believed, but not yet confirmed, that the gunman committed suicide after the police arrived at the door to the hotel suite. > > It was relatively quick to find him and then a long delay to breach the door. That seems to be pretty much it. They identified the general area of the room very quickly from the muzzle flashes visible for 500 yards, narrowed it down to a specific room by the smoke detector, and were met by gunfire and then silence as they approached the door. This all happened within 12 minutes of the first shot being fired. As long as he wasn’t shooting they waited to enter in the safest way possible. He apparently shot himself right after shooting through the door. > [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Of further interest to me are the trace (?) amounts of explosives they are finding at various locations. Where are the explosives? Did he have something bigger planned? If he did, why didn’t he have a better exit strategy in place? I feel like something isn’t adding up yet. Tannerite is used in exploding targets that shooting enthusiasts like to hear go boom when they hit it. If that is all he had chances are he wasn’t trying to make bombs with it as he clearly had access to all kinds of things that go boom. But the investigation is looking into the possibility that he originally planned to attack the ‘life is beautiful’ festival earlier in the week at the Ogden hotel - a much bigger crowd than the one he finally attacked. This may have been a plan B after that one fell through for whatever reason. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/342 "2017-10-04T18:38:40Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Consider Kazynski. He was famous (albeit anonymous) while the crimes were happening. He \*knew \*he was famous even if the public didn’t know his name. Once his trial started, and especially after his sentence started, he simply disappeared, filed in the publics’ conscious as “Forgotten loser rotting in a cell.” There was no Unabomber trial; Kazynski plead guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/343 "2017-10-04T18:46:17Z")
I read an account of one of the guy’s neighbors saying he was really a horrible person, that they never had anything but bad interactions in the few times when they spoke. And a Starbucks employee said she would cringe whenever he and his gf came in because he would always berate her loudly. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/344 "2017-10-04T19:01:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > . . .Kudos to LVMPD. I am particularly impressed with the work of Sheriff Joseph Lombardo. Throughout the lengthy and chaotic ordeal he managed to keep the public informed with regular informative briefings, and conveyed an air of competence and control that is refreshing. mc ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/345 "2017-10-04T19:27:58Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > 500/600 is for the M4. The M16 is 550 for point and 800 for area due to the longer barrel. That’s for aiming on a flat trajectory. I’m not sure how much 32 floors of elevation would effect that. It increases the effective range. For an extreme example, imagine shooting straight down. I have no idea how high up his room is, but if it’s 10ft per floor and if the lobby/casino portion is an extra 20, that’s about 110m, right? The link provided up thread stated the distance from his room to the crowd was 1200ft. Call it 400m. That turns in to about a 350-380m shot in the sights. Not far at all for an area target like a crowd of people. Not exceptionally far for aimed shots either, especially with no wind. > [@](#): > > In case anyone is wondering what a slide fire stock does. > [https://youtu.be/ufmPQfB1k9A](https://youtu.be/ufmPQfB1k9A) Good chance of getting banned at this point, I’d say. > [@Tzigone](#): > > “Silencer” is what the people reading will understand and is the appropriate term to use in speaking to the masses in shorthand instead of in-depth, IMO. It is also the legally correct term, as it’s the word used by the ATF to describe it and regulate it. I’ve purchased a couple silencers. There are two forms to be completed to do this. Both forms refer to the device as a “silencer”. Neither form uses the word “suppressor”. The ATF Form 4 can be found here: [https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-4-application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204/download](https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/form/form-4-application-tax-paid-transfer-and-registration-firearm-atf-form-53204/download) Notice under definitions, it mentions a “muffler or silencer”. On the Form 4473, it mentions only “silencer” when referring to these devices. [https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download](https://www.atf.gov/file/61446/download) The only thing worse than an obnoxious pedant is one who is not only obnoxious and pedantic, but wrong as well. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/346 "2017-10-04T21:11:18Z")
Local news just said that 12 of his guns in the hotel room had “bump stocks.” Had a local gun dealer showing one off, said that they aren’t usually popular because they decrease accuracy, but now are “selling like hotcakes.” ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/347 "2017-10-04T21:18:21Z")
New advertising slogan: “_Massacre Guaranteed_”. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/348 "2017-10-04T23:22:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Local news just said that 12 of his guns in the hotel room had “bump stocks.” Had a local gun dealer showing one off, said that they aren’t usually popular because they decrease accuracy, but now are “selling like hotcakes.” Yeah, if you want people to go out and buy more of a particular gun or accessory, just convince some politicians start talking about how we should ban it. Instant sales spike. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/349 "2017-10-04T23:57:37Z")
Is it that or is it simply the umpteen jillion views this week of the couple of bump-stock youtubes out there that were languishing in total obscurity until a few days ago? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/350 "2017-10-05T00:05:30Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m still confused about the timeline. The guy shot for approx. 12 minutes - then stopped? He was shooting fish in a barrel. It didn’t take a lot of concentration to shoot 600 people and he could monitor the hall while swapping out magazines. Once the crowd scattered/dispersed his position was known so the area would have been empty. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/351 "2017-10-05T01:47:06Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Reports are now saying along with the arsenal of firearms he had an arsenal of anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medicine and vallium. Madsircool’s messageboard psychoanalysis notwithstanding, he was either under the care of a psychiatrist or abusing psychotropic drugs without a prescription. His final weeks are now being described as a ‘descent into madness’ that included extreme weight loss, slovenly dress and appearance, erratic behavior, etc. What reports? Who is describing his final weeks that way? What evidence of drugs have you read about and where? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/352 "2017-10-05T01:52:50Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > I read an account of one of the guy’s neighbors saying he was really a horrible person, that they never had anything but bad interactions in the few times when they spoke. And a Starbucks employee said she would cringe whenever he and his gf came in because he would always berate her loudly. That would seem to contradict [other published accounts](https://apnews.com/7e4a10c9c9204ccabf7ed0f11f049446/Girlfriend-of-Las-Vegas-killer-says-he-left-her-in-the-dark): > [@](#): > > And while neighbors described Paddock as friendly, he wasn’t close to them. [Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.html) > [@](#): > > From his neighbors in a quiet retirement community in Mesquite, Nev., he drew little attention, unless it was for his extreme propensity to keep to himself. He displayed no strong religious or political views, his relatives said, and was not known for angry outbursts. [Cite:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre/?utm_term=.63642531051e) > [@](#): > > Donald Judy, who was his next-door neighbor in Florida until two years ago, said the inside of Paddock’s home “looked like a college freshman lived there.” There was no art on the walls and no car in the driveway. Just a dining chair, a bed and two recliners. Paddock was constantly on the move, carrying a suitcase and driving a rental car whenever he stayed at the community near Cocoa Beach. > > “It looked like he’d be ready to move at a moment’s notice,” Judy said. > > Judy said he never flashed his wealth, often wearing khaki cotton pants, with a polo or other collared shirt, and never driving anything nicer than a standard rental car. > > A little while after living there, Paddock left Judy a key and asked him to keep an eye on the rarely used house and to borrow any tools he might want. Judy said there were no drugs or parties, nothing unusual except for Paddock’s gambling. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/353 "2017-10-05T01:57:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What reports? > > Who is describing his final weeks that way? > > What evidence of drugs have you read about and where? Pretty much every major news outlet’s recent reports. I was primarily referring to[this one](http://abcnews.go.com/US/portrait-emerging-las-vegas-shooter-man-descending-madness/story?id=50275427) but you can [take your pick](https://www.google.com/search?q=stephen+paddock+antidepressants). > [@](#): > > More details are emerging, investigators say, that suggest Paddock’s mental state was deteriorating in the weeks before he opened fire into a crowd of concertgoers in Las Vegas on Sunday — significant weight loss, an increasingly slovenly physical appearance and an obsession with his girlfriend’s ex-husband. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/354 "2017-10-05T03:13:31Z")
> [@Crazyhorse](#): > > Pretty much every major news outlet’s recent reports. I was primarily referring to[this one](http://abcnews.go.com/US/portrait-emerging-las-vegas-shooter-man-descending-madness/story?id=50275427) but you can [take your pick](https://www.google.com/search?q=stephen+paddock+antidepressants). Thank you for the first link. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/355 "2017-10-05T05:43:17Z")
[Here’s an example](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCCT8JtwQeI&feature=youtu.be&t=43s) of the “bump-stock” at work. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/356 "2017-10-05T05:48:09Z")
The shooter’s girlfriend appears to be [a fine specimen](https://www.yahoo.com/news/paddock-apos-girlfriend-used-two-230002037.html). She was married to two men at the same time (possibly because she just neglected to divorce the first one, to whom she was still married whilst dallying with Paddock) and used two different social security numbers that differed in reported age by 8 years. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/357 "2017-10-05T05:54:51Z")
I dunno either of those things is sinful, nor interesting. For someone who’s out of the country at the time and had nothing to do with the shooting, the media seem to be persecuting her pretty well. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/358 "2017-10-05T12:15:32Z")
I watched the press briefing last night and the sherif said there was evidence of an escape plan ( he declined to say what that evidence was) and that they are working under the assumption that he had help. I think this is mostly based on the complexity and extent of the preparation. > **[Vegas shooter must have had ‘help at some point’: authorities](https://nypost.com/2017/10/04/vegas-shooter-must-have-had-help-at-some-point-authorities/)** > > Bloodthirsty madman Stephen Paddock sprayed 200 rounds at a hotel security guard who amazingly dodged serious injury from that barrage of bullets, authorities said Wednesday. The Mandalay Bay guard… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/359 "2017-10-05T13:45:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, if you want people to go out and buy more of a particular gun or accessory, just convince some politicians start talking about how we should ban it. Instant sales spike. I think the use of it in the shooting was the advertisement that got people to go out and buy it. Paddock was an excellent salesman for that particular product. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/360 "2017-10-05T15:21:51Z")
So now report are coming out that Paddock may have booked tickets to the hotel overlooking Lollapalooza in Chicago. Still unconfirmed, but if he was planning on shooting, I wonder if he decided it wasn’t as good of a target. While the entire festival grounds are technically right across the street, where the actual concerts are is 400 yards away and surrounded by trees. The hotel is also only 18 stories high and doesn’t have the giant windows like Mandalay Bay. Still, if there had been a shooting, it may have been a lot worse. A crowd five times the size and a lake on one side so there’s a lot less room to run. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=19)