# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/381 "2017-10-08T15:54:00Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Using napalm or firebombing Dresden didn’t require the human behind the act to witness the result of their action. Shooting 50 people from a hotel window turns you into an instant witness to your actions. Different in my mind. He was about a quarter mile away from the crowd. Some of his rifles may have had, but I seriously doubt he was using scopes. At that distance, people look like gnats. To say he was truly witnessing the results of his spraying is dubious at best. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/382 "2017-10-08T20:13:41Z")
He certainly got to watch the panic as the crowd scattered. He certainly didn’t see the sniper shot super-slo-mo super-closeup head-splosions so beloved of Hollywood. Whether what he saw made him feel exhilarated, liberated, satisifed, disgusted, sad, or nothing at all is gonna be impossible to say. Whatever this is, it isn’t warfare. Comparisons to the feelings of soldiers are really inapt. Comparisons to the motivations or morals of soldiers is frankly despicable. Regardless of whose soldiers someone is comparing to. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/383 "2017-10-08T21:28:28Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I don’t find his use of math to make him Extra Special Evil, I find it consistent with the rest of his methodical, planning personality. He seemed to be someone who carefully planned a lot of things, he was an accountant, the math involved was probably trivial by his standards. Totally agree. He planned everything. He might be extreme on the anti-social scale but he wasn’t ill. Culture is a construct. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/384 "2017-10-09T00:40:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Totally agree. He planned everything. He might be extreme on the anti-social scale but he wasn’t ill. I’m not sure how you could say that. Fucked up crazy people can be meticulously plotting, too. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/385 "2017-10-09T00:49:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Totally agree. He planned everything. He might be extreme on the anti-social scale but he wasn’t ill. Culture is a construct. You seem to have very strange definitions of “ill” and of “culture”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/386 "2017-10-09T01:03:57Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Using napalm or firebombing Dresden didn’t require the human behind the act to witness the result of their action. Shooting 50 people from a hotel window turns you into an instant witness to your actions. Different in my mind. Not to derail the thread, but American aircrews who firebombed Tokyo reported the stench of burning human flesh at low altitude, and some saw people burning alive. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/387 "2017-10-09T03:44:20Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Totally agree. He planned everything. He might be extreme on the anti-social scale but he wasn’t ill. Culture is a construct. [Las Vegas massacre gunman Stephen Paddock was prescribed anti-anxiety drug diazepam that can lead to aggressive behaviour](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4607974/las-vegas-massacre-gunman-stephen-paddock-was-prescribed-anti-anxiety-drug-diazepam-that-can-lead-to-aggressive-behaviour/) [Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock was ‘terribly depressed’ before massacre](https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4641669/las-vegas-shooter-stepehen-paddock-depressed-before-shooting/) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/388 "2017-10-09T04:01:16Z")
While the depression info adds to the picture it doesn’t really explain the amount of time spent prepping for this or why he wanted to kill people in this manner. He had tens of thousands of dollars wrapped up in guns and untold hours planning it. This wasn’t just about killing people. He could have killed many more for much less money time. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/389 "2017-10-09T05:03:13Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The human mind is amazingly malleable, and nearly anyone can be fair,y quickly converted into a person capable of doing horrendous things. German farm boys were quickly persuaded to execute the Holocaust, as easily as American farm boys were persuaded to napalm Vietnamese children and watch them burn alive. Pilots commanded to firebomb Dresden had few second thoughts. _“One of the things I learned in the war is that—we’re not the top species on the planet because we’re nice. We are a very aggressive species. It is in us. And, people talk a lot about how well the military turns kids into killing machines and stuff. And I will always argue it’s just finishing school.”_ Karl Marlantes USMC Veteran, Vietnam (from Ken Burns’ documentary _The Vietnam War_) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/390 "2017-10-09T05:06:06Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > That would seem to contradict [other published accounts](https://apnews.com/7e4a10c9c9204ccabf7ed0f11f049446/Girlfriend-of-Las-Vegas-killer-says-he-left-her-in-the-dark):[Cite](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.html)[Cite:](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre/?utm_term=.63642531051e) Seems like “Don’t speak ill of the dead” is kicking in here. “He was quiet and kept to himself” is a cliché at this point, so it adds nothing new and is probably just ritual phrasing. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/391 "2017-10-09T08:18:22Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While the depression info adds to the picture it doesn’t really explain the amount of time spent prepping for this or why he wanted to kill people in this manner. He had tens of thousands of dollars wrapped up in guns and untold hours planning it. This wasn’t just about killing people. He could have killed many more for much less money time. We’ll probably never know his mental state since he’s dead and can’t be examined. Unless more information comes out like he had been diagnosed with some condition it’s all just speculation based on what is known about him, what he’s done, how he lived and interacted with people and what the people who knew him remember about him. But since we’re engaging in amateur speculative psychology here anyway, my guess is the depression was just a side effect of a psychosis that went on undetected by others around him for a very long time. What finally pushed the button to move from a long term fantasy into action will probably also never be known. Some of the characteristics that stood out in descriptions of him in [these interviews](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/us/stephen-paddock-vegas.html) of those who knew him: > [@](#): > > “lived an intensely private, unsocial life.” > > “a rigidity and uncompromising attitude” > > “arrogant, with a strong sense of superiority.” > > “acted like everybody worked for him and that he was above others” > > “was frustrated by people who did stupid things” > > “cherished his solitude” > > “did what he wanted to do when he wanted to do it.” > > "father was mostly absent, living a life of crime…diagnosed as being psychopathic with possible suicidal tendencies.” None of these characteristics in themselves can be used to diagnose psychosis or anything else but this profile isn’t in conflict with the profile of most anyone who is psychotic. Add to that the downward trajectory his life was taking as he aged, possibly began to have health issues, and devoted almost all his time to video poker. > [@](#): > > “both of his marriages long over, casinos became Mr. Paddock’s habitat” > > “Gambling made him feel important” > > “stayed in one Las Vegas hotel gambling for four months straight” > > “capable of losing $100,000 in one session, which could extend over several days…may have lost that amount at the Red Rock Casino in Las Vegas within the last few months” > > “As early as 2010, could no longer fly his planes. His medical certificate expired and there are no indications that he renewed it.” > > “seemed to be deteriorating in recent months both mentally and physically.” He had no strong relationships; a kept girlfriend and prostitutes were his love life. He was loosely in touch with one brother, had a very elderly mother, and was estranged from the rest of his family. No friends other than casual acquaintances who barely knew him. Of the girlfriend, brother and mother - he was their support system but none of them were his. There was nobody who was going to ring an alarm bell if he was slipping into a dangerous psychotic state. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/392 "2017-10-09T10:05:47Z")
So does anybody actually believe ISIS’s claims of responsibility at this point? This guy just doesn’t seem like their type. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/393 "2017-10-09T12:29:55Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So does anybody actually believe ISIS’s claims of responsibility at this point? This guy just doesn’t seem like their type. I don’t believe he had much if anything to do with ISIS, but ‘heavily armed loner who hates the world’ sounds like he would fit right in. I wonder at what point the police will consider the investigation complete, and all the details will be released to the public. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/394 "2017-10-09T13:51:06Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So does anybody actually believe ISIS’s claims of responsibility at this point? This guy just doesn’t seem like their type. This guy is exactly the type of recruit they would seek out for a suicide mission. Willing and able. But on the other side of the coin I doin’t think ISIS is his type of organization. He would be above it unless they were doing his bidding. What might exist is help from ISIS to accomplish his goals and that would be a mutually inclusive arrangement. I doubt you have to pass a written exam on Islam to become a member of the suicide brigade. If he accepted help from ISIS I wouldn’t give them credit for it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/395 "2017-10-09T16:07:17Z")
I’m curious if anyone has seen a breakdown on how many of the victims were wounded directly by gunfire and how many were injured by other means? I’ve been trying to watch and so far the closest thing I’ve found is [this Chicago Tribune story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-las-vegas-shooting-20171003-story.html): > [@](#): > > Many of the most critically wounded patients arrived at the 541-bed University Medical Center of Southern Nevada, the state’s only Level One trauma center. Over about four hours, it received 104 patients. More than 80 percent were gunshot victims. Obviously “many” and “more than” leave a fair bit of uncertainty, and there could be lightly-wounded gunshot victims. Has anyone seen a more definitive answer? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/396 "2017-10-09T17:04:01Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That makes everyone who shoots a rifle a genius. Or you can look it up on the internet. > [Like here](http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php?t=820cb410). Or like it was explained in earlier in this thread, and the math wasn’t even done on paper… ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/397 "2017-10-09T17:35:12Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You seem to have very strange definitions of “ill” and of “culture”. Ill means sick with disease Culture decides which actions are acceptable. We might think this guy was ‘ill’ because he killed many people. There were literally of thousands of Germans who killed many more than him during the Holocaust. Most survived the war and lived normal (as far as we know) lives. They use what Robert Lifton called personality doubling to deal with their dual lives. If he has any brain defect found in autopsy that might have influenced his actions then we might be able to say he was ill. Otherwise no. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/398 "2017-10-09T20:09:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m curious if anyone has seen a breakdown on how many of the victims were wounded directly by gunfire and how many were injured by other means? I’ve been trying to watch and so far the closest thing I’ve found is [this Chicago Tribune story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-las-vegas-shooting-20171003-story.html): > > Obviously “many” and “more than” leave a fair bit of uncertainty, and there could be lightly-wounded gunshot victims. Has anyone seen a more definitive answer? There’s no reason some of the victims couldn’t have had gunshot wounds AND escape/crowd/trampling injuries, too. I can’t point to discreet source on line but some of the not-so-seriously-injured people interviewed on TV shortly afterward described running, leaping/climbing over fences and other obstacles both while being shot and shortly afterward. There is some overlap between the two groups. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/399 "2017-10-09T20:14:15Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > If he has any brain defect found in autopsy that might have influenced his actions then we might be able to say he was ill. Otherwise no. Given the condition of his brain when they found him, identifying any defects might prove challenging. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/400 "2017-10-09T21:48:56Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Given the condition of his brain when they found him, identifying any defects might prove challenging. I saw the pic and he swallowed his pistol. The upper parts of his brain might be intact. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=21)