# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/401 "2017-10-09T21:52:36Z")
I am no psychiatrst, but AIUI, depression does not sound like something that would lead to a meticulously-planned killing spree. Many people with depression described it as something akin to extreme mental lethargy, inability to get up out of bed, seeing little purpose in going on living or even doing anything, low emotional energy. Someone who goes to the great lengths to carry out a killing spree like Paddock might be angry, psychopathic or homicidal, but certainly not someone lacking mental energy or focus. It takes a lot of will and intent to do that, something a depressed and lethargic person would lack. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/402 "2017-10-09T21:59:24Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am no psychiatrst, but AIUI, depression does not sound like something that would lead to a meticulously-planned killing spree. Many people with depression described it as something akin to extreme mental lethargy, inability to get up out of bed, seeing little purpose in going on living or even doing anything, low emotional energy. > > Someone who goes to the great lengths to carry out a killing spree like Paddock might be angry, psychopathic or homicidal, but certainly not someone lacking mental energy or focus. It takes a lot of will and intent to do that, something a depressed and lethargic person would lack. Totally agree. Also, imo this is the kind of guy who will leave behind false clues. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/403 "2017-10-09T22:16:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am no psychiatrst, but AIUI, depression does not sound like something that would lead to a meticulously-planned killing spree. Many people with depression described it as something akin to extreme mental lethargy, inability to get up out of bed, seeing little purpose in going on living or even doing anything, low emotional energy. > > Someone who goes to the great lengths to carry out a killing spree like Paddock might be angry, psychopathic or homicidal, but certainly not someone lacking mental energy or focus. It takes a lot of will and intent to do that, something a depressed and lethargic person would lack. Meticulous and detailed planning isn’t a common characteristic of a pyschopath. They tend to act on impulse when angry and any plan that ends with their own death is unlikely. He could have been psychotic though. Obviously any remorse or sympathy he felt for his victims wasn’t enough to stop him from murdering them but I don’t think he was a psychopath from what little is known about him. But there’s no rule that he can’t be a depressed, psychopathic psychotic. His impulsive risk taking nature could be demonstrated by high stakes gambling and success in the real estate business while at the same time a delusion caused him to reach the decision that he needed to kill himself and as many people as he could take with them. Really all this analysis is purely academic and somewhat pointless. It’s just tempting to try to assign some reason to such a horrible decision. It is ridiculous to claim outright that he was sane, quite a bit more so than to claim outright that he was crazy, but as far as what was wrong it could have been for something as simple as he hated country music and had poor impulse control and anger issues all the way to full blown hallucinatory delusions where he believed he was killing minions of satan. And anything in between. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/404 "2017-10-10T04:27:58Z")
New weirdness comes out about the shooting > **[Las Vegas gunman shot security guard a full six minutes before opening fire...](https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html)** > > Police have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacre began on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country music concert — raising new questions about why... ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/405 "2017-10-10T04:44:06Z")
^^See, now this pisses me off. All we’ve been hearing this whole time is how great the security team at Mandalay was, and how efficiently the police handled the situation. I’m not ready to take all that away from them just yet (I’ve been impressed with them the whole time myself), but this is…not good. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/406 "2017-10-10T05:33:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Lombardo also revised the date on which police believe Paddock checked into Mandalay Bay. While initially they said he had checked in on Sept. 28, three days before the shooting, they now believe he checked in on Sept. 25. Some of the conspiracy theories going around shortly after the shooting show a room service receipt dated the 27th as proof he was already checked in by then. Apparently it wasn’t photoshopped after all. Something has always been off in the ever-changing timeline of events since the story first broke. There are time-stamped police radio transmissions just a couple of minutes after the shooting started identifying the location as the north side of Mandolay Bay toward the west on a middle floor. Unless their clocks are wrong that has to be the moment they started moving to the area no matter what else happened at the hotel. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/407 "2017-10-10T05:52:56Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I am no psychiatrst, but AIUI, depression does not sound like something that would lead to a meticulously-planned killing spree. Many people with depression described it as something akin to extreme mental lethargy, inability to get up out of bed, seeing little purpose in going on living or even doing anything, low emotional energy. > > Someone who goes to the great lengths to carry out a killing spree like Paddock might be angry, psychopathic or homicidal, but certainly not someone lacking mental energy or focus. It takes a lot of will and intent to do that, something a depressed and lethargic person would lack. When a severely depressed person decides to execute the final solution, he / she can feel incredibly energized and focused for an extended period leading up to his / her death / attempt. Been there & seen that. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/408 "2017-10-10T06:56:13Z")
> [@DooWahDiddy](#): > > ^^See, now this pisses me off. All we’ve been hearing this whole time is how great the security team at Mandalay was, and how efficiently the police handled the situation. I’m not ready to take all that away from them just yet (I’ve been impressed with them the whole time myself), but this is…not good. Huge Lawsuit potential + Quick and Hasty thinking on Mandalay Bay’s part ahead of time. If there is any conspiracy, either someone got the timing wrong, or someone was worried about their pockets getting emptied by lawyers for not acting quick enough. Just floating the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/409 "2017-10-10T11:16:26Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’m curious if anyone has seen a breakdown on how many of the victims were wounded directly by gunfire and how many were injured by other means? I’ve been trying to watch and so far the closest thing I’ve found is [this Chicago Tribune story](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-las-vegas-shooting-20171003-story.html): > > Obviously “many” and “more than” leave a fair bit of uncertainty, and there could be lightly-wounded gunshot victims. Has anyone seen a more definitive answer? No cite, but I saw an interview with one of the directors of that hospital and he was asked that question. He said roughly two out of three of the patients they treated had gunshot wounds and the rest had other injuries sustained in the panic. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/410 "2017-10-10T16:58:28Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > No cite, but I saw an interview with one of the directors of that hospital and he was asked that question. He said roughly two out of three of the patients they treated had gunshot wounds and the rest had other injuries sustained in the panic. Thanks for this information. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/411 "2017-10-11T00:59:22Z")
The shooter apparently used some number of incendiary rounds in an effort to ignite a very [large tank of jet fuel](http://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-used-incendiary-bullets/news-story/8db70a1b8d0da01a9840a1e4ff980b60) at McCarran. I had heard that he had punctured the tank, but this story only says that he hit it. Jet fuel, IIUC, is kerosene, which is not extremely volatile but would have made big fire if he had got it burning. I am curious how many rounds he got off. If there were in excess of 350 hits on people, one would have to guess more than a thousand. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/412 "2017-10-11T07:01:30Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Local news just said that 12 of his guns in the hotel room had “bump stocks.” Had a local gun dealer showing one off, said that they aren’t usually popular because they decrease accuracy, but now are “selling like hotcakes.” > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, if you want people to go out and buy more of a particular gun or accessory, just convince some politicians start talking about how we should ban it. Instant sales spike. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > Is it that or is it simply the umpteen jillion views this week of the couple of bump-stock youtubes out there that were languishing in total obscurity until a few days ago? According to a [lawsuit](https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/courts/las-vegas-firm-files-lawsuit-against-bump-stock-manufacturer/)filed against Slide Fire Solutions sales were pretty brisk prior to the massacre. > [@](#): > > the company made more than $10 million in bump stock sales during its first year. Based in Texas, Slide Fire sold upward of 35,000 units in 2011. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/413 "2017-10-11T15:30:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Given the condition of his brain when they found him, identifying any defects might prove challenging. Brain normal says coroner. Motive may never be known. > **[Las Vegas massacre gunman 'no abnormalites' in his brain, police say](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4969140/Las-Vegas-gunman-no-abnormalites-brain.html)** > > Clark County sheriff Joe Lombardo said exams of Vegas killer Stephen Paddock's brain revealed 'no abnormalities' and his girlfriend had 'no concerns' for his mental health. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/414 "2017-10-28T20:25:07Z")
I just read this story in the New York Times and I wept. ['You’re a Quadriplegic’: A Las Vegas Victim Faces a Hard Reality](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/28/us/las-vegas-injured.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&_r=0) > [@](#): > > LOMA LINDA, Calif. — “This is your life,” the doctor said. “You’re a quadriplegic.” > > When she heard the news, Kim Gervais broke down. The tears rolled out, and her daughter clasped her mother’s head, overcome by her own inability to help. > > Then came Ms. Gervais’s trip home to Southern California. And here she was, three weeks after the shooting, strapped into a wheelchair at a rehabilitation clinic, toughing it out with a physical therapist and straining to drink from a sippy cup as her toddler grandchildren looked on. > … > > So much of the attention in the aftermath of mass shootings has been focused on the gunman and the number left dead in his wake. But the injured who survive carry a special burden. “We all kind of forget that these people have to live with it for the rest of their lives,” said Dr. Bryan Tsao, chair of the neurology department at Loma Linda University Health. > > Dr. Tsao is still treating three patients from the 2015 San Bernardino attack. Battered physically and emotionally, none have been able to return to work, he said. > … > > On Day 19 of her recovery, she [Ms. Gervais] was in her hospital room, in the wheelchair, wearing a neck brace and thick compression socks. A humidifier puffed mist above her head. Her daughter Amber Manka, 30, stood by with her own two children. > > Ms. Gervais, 56, runs a business servicing trash compactors. She spends — or spent — her weekends riding ATVs in the desert, wearing leather gloves and a full-face helmet. When her husband, a sprint car racer, died after a crash, she raised her two girls on her own. > … > > At the hospital, a man entered with a clipboard and said he was there to discuss the equipment Ms. Gervais will need when she goes home, which could be weeks or months from now. Among her needs are an expensive wheelchair, a remodeled bathroom, a new car, a nurse, and a way to run her business and pay her mortgage. > > “You know,” he said, looking at the women, “your insurance will probably not cover any of this.” > … ☹ Kim Gervais had gone to Las Vegas with two girlfriends. One of them was not physically injured. The other one was killed. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/415 "2017-10-28T20:36:59Z")
Do we know how many people were shot and wounded as opposed to hospitalized with nongunshot injures? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/416 "2017-10-28T22:10:39Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Do we know how many people were shot and wounded as opposed to hospitalized with nongunshot injures? Haven’t looked lately, but IIRC, shortly after the incident reports said something like “the majority” of the wounded had gunshots. Cynical me suspected a bunch of skinned knees and stampede victims. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/417 "2017-10-28T23:16:44Z")
Thelma Lou, that is so sad. and there are survivors being harassed by the assholes that claim this is some kind of made up thing to justify taking their guns. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/418 "2017-12-22T06:35:25Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Do we know how many people were shot and wounded as opposed to hospitalized with nongunshot injures? Well, [we now know this](https://apnews.com/c94ade9112db40aab0ea423f924837f1/Coroner:-Gunfire-killed-all-58-victims-in-Las-Vegas-shooting): > [@](#): > > All 58 victims of the Las Vegas mass shooting died of gunshot wounds, a coroner said Thursday, revealing that no one was trampled to death trying to escape from an outdoor concert that turned into a massacre. > > The deaths in the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history were all ruled homicides, Clark County Coroner John Fudenberg told The Associated Press. > > The only wound to the shooter, Stephen Craig Paddock, 64, was a self-inflicted gunshot to the mouth, Fudenberg said. The death was ruled a suicide. > > Twenty-one people were shot in the head, 36 died with chest and back wounds and one died of a gunshot to the leg, according to a chart the coroner released. Four victims had multiple gunshot wounds. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/419 "2017-12-22T12:49:44Z")
21 head shots implies to me this guy was using careful aimed fire, not just spray & pray. Although once the crowd started moving I’m not sure how much aimed fire you can get over 400 yards against running people. In all, if indeed he sniped a bunch of these people, that’s an even more deranged / depraved mental state than simply blasting away into a vague sea of humanity. OTOH, because he was positioned above and so using plunging fire, the head shots may just be artifacts of that geometry. ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2017, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/420 "2017-12-22T14:13:10Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > 21 head shots implies to me this guy was using careful aimed fire, not just spray & pray. Although once the crowd started moving I’m not sure how much aimed fire you can get over 400 yards against running people. > > In all, if indeed he sniped a bunch of these people, that’s an even more deranged / depraved mental state than simply blasting away into a vague sea of humanity. > > OTOH, because he was positioned above and so using plunging fire, the head shots may just be artifacts of that geometry. At 400 yards, you have to be a darned competent shooter, and have a way-beyond-average accurate gun to deliberately and repeatedly hit a target the size of a human head. And almost any competent shooter would use a bolt rifle, not an AR-15 with a bump stock, if they wanted to shoot accurately at 400 yards. In a tightly packed crowd, particularly when seen from a higher vantage point, which part of the people is seen? It was spray and pray. The headsets were caused by the geometry. Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=22)