# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/441 "2018-07-18T01:07:01Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The NYTimes has much better information [here](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/us/mgm-resorts-sues-victims.html): > > So it is a kind of suit that hasn’t been tried before in this kind of situation, but not for money. Does that bring down the RO level at all? I don’t see why it would. MGM is trying to get a judge to dismiss them from any liability BEFORE any facts are heard. I find it hard to believe that something like the MGM locking fire exits would exempt from liability unless they can show that the “certified” company they hired had told them to, but we’d need a trial for that to come out in the first place, IIUC. MGM is trying to avoid the trial altogether. BTW, the story you linked to is titled “MGM Resorts Sues 1,000 Victims of Las Vegas Shooting, Seeking to Avoid Liability”. 😃 Frankly, I think MGM is likely to fail in this bid because I don’t think that what happened there was “terrorism” it was “terror”. > [@](#): > > “It’s all about immunizing themselves from liability and staying out of state courts,” said Craig Eiland, a lawyer in Austin, Tex., who represents hundreds of shooting victims. “They want to say that it does not matter how negligent MGM was” in allowing Mr. Paddock to stockpile an arsenal in his Mandalay Bay hotel room. > [@](#): > > “Their theory is that this security company goes to D.H.S. and gets some type of certificate, and so now MGM is immune, and everybody in the future who hires the company is immune,” he said. “It’s outrageous, and that’s not what the law is, and we would all be less safe.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/442 "2018-07-18T02:56:28Z")
I don’t recall seeing this in any of the previous stories, nor do I recall reading it at the Las Vegas Review-Journal, but [the AP says](https://apnews.com/c3bec63b242d4d2f98bfea979c68e0e1/MGM-sues-Vegas-shooting-victims-in-push-to-avoid-liability): > [@](#): > > The company argues in lawsuits filed in Nevada, California, New York and other states this week and last that it has “no liability of any kind” to survivors or families of slain victims under a federal law enacted after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. MGM seems to basically be shopping for a sympathetic judge and they’re betting they can find at least one. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/443 "2018-07-18T04:22:04Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I don’t see why it would. MGM is trying to get a judge to dismiss them from any liability BEFORE any facts are heard. I find it hard to believe that something like the MGM locking fire exits would exempt from liability unless they can show that the “certified” company they hired had told them to, but we’d need a trial for that to come out in the first place, IIUC. MGM is trying to avoid the trial altogether. > > BTW, the story you linked to is titled “MGM Resorts Sues 1,000 Victims of Las Vegas Shooting, Seeking to Avoid Liability”. 😃 > > Frankly, I think MGM is likely to fail in this bid because I don’t think that what happened there was “terrorism” it was “terror”. Do you ever read beyond the headline? Did you read what I quoted and what I said in my post? So the headline about “lawsuits” sounds like they are suing for money, or to find the victims liable for damages in some way. This is not the case. And what makes you think that the facts won’t be heard in MGM’s lawsuits? It sounds to me (not a lawyer) like MGM is putting their liability to the test under an untested point of law, but that it will still involve trials and evidence and testimony and stuff like that. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/444 "2018-07-18T05:57:08Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Do you ever read beyond the headline? Did you read what I quoted and what I said in my post? So the headline about “lawsuits” sounds like they are suing for money, or to find the victims liable for damages in some way. This is not the case. How rude. Totally uncalled for and unprovoked. Pure jackassery, that was. You asked if it would bring down the RO; I answered “I don’t see why it would” because I found your arguments unconvincing. That’s the way things are, sometimes: feeble arguments don’t convince people. You also make assumptions about what people think and what will assuage their fears, and it hampers your ability to interact with others in a civil manner when your suppositions are contradicted, apparently. Your problems with what you perceive to be implications in the word “sue” or “lawsuit” are yours, not mine or anyone else’s, necessarily. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > And what makes you think that the facts won’t be heard in MGM’s lawsuits? It sounds to me (not a lawyer) like MGM is putting their liability to the test under an untested point of law, but that it will still involve trials and evidence and testimony and stuff like that. Because they are asking to be held immune from liability based on the law making them immune. Any proceedings will not hear evidence about the shooting at all. MGM isn’t putting anything to the test. They have farted in the wind, and if they can convince anyone it smells like a rose, they have a chance to win. This is a no-cost way of attempting to obtain a Get Out Of Jail Free card. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/445 "2018-07-18T14:00:06Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > I understand what their end goal is here; to **not** be deep pockets. But doesn’t this mean that the estates of the deceased/shooting victims need to hire lawyers even if they didn’t sue MGM? So now the crime victims need more out-of-pocket money to defend themselves??? 😕 IANAL, but I’d say the answer is yes - but only if they want to push back against MGM. If there’s a realistic prospect that they could obtain a lucrative judgment against MGM in a future lawsuit, then they should have no trouble finding a lawyer to represent them on contingency in the present suit. ---
**Author:** ![Allecher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@Allecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Allecher)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/446 "2018-07-18T21:05:50Z")
[This seems to be relevant to MGM’s recent suit](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/mgm-s-suit-not-attack-victims-las-vegas-shooting-n892291). ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/447 "2019-10-03T17:11:11Z")
> [@](#): > > MGM Resorts International and the victims of the Las Vegas mass shooting reached a landmark settlement worth between $735 million and $800 million, depending on the number of claimants, MGM said in a statement Thursday… > > According to a regulatory filing released in May, MGM said it could pay as much as $800 million for lawsuits related to the mass shooting. **The document noted that the company has about $751 million in insurance coverage that can be used to help cover such costs.** [https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/us/las-vegas-shooting-mgm-settlement/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/us/las-vegas-shooting-mgm-settlement/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/448 "2019-10-03T17:17:35Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > [https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/us/las-vegas-shooting-mgm-settlement/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/us/las-vegas-shooting-mgm-settlement/index.html) Let’s see - 58 dead people, lets say $2 million each - that’s $116 million 422 others shot - how about million each. That’s another $422 million 429 others injured - half a million each. That’s $215 million Hmmmm. That only leaves 47 million for the lawyers. That’s not gonna work. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/449 "2019-10-26T01:14:27Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Let’s see - 58 dead people, lets say $2 million each - that’s $116 million > > 422 others shot - how about million each. That’s another $422 million > > 429 others injured - half a million each. That’s $215 million > > Hmmmm. That only leaves 47 million for the lawyers. That’s not gonna work. You’re doing it backwards. First it’s 30% for the lawyers, then the victims divvy up the rest. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/450 "2019-10-26T01:38:11Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I agree with the action. > > MGM did nothing wrong. Nor did the concert promoters. Its 100% the fault of the shooter. The only reason the hotel is being sued is because of $$$$. What could anyone have done different? Room searches? Bag searches? Well, yeah. And maybe we can’t have removable windows high up overlooking event spaces any more. Without airport screenings, a bomb on a plane would be 100% the fault of the bomber so do we really need to go through security lines? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/451 "2019-10-26T04:19:05Z")
> [@NetTrekker](#): > > Well, yeah. And maybe we can’t have removable windows high up overlooking event spaces any more. Without airport screenings, a bomb on a plane would be 100% the fault of the bomber so do we really need to go through security lines? They didnt have removable windows in the first place. The shootings really couldnt have been avoided without police state tactics people hate. The shooter was probably the single most ruthless and intelligent mass murderer. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2019, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/452 "2019-10-26T17:26:01Z")
The problem is a copycat could do the same thing again if security isn’t tightened. Concert promoters are on the liability hook as well. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2021, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/453 "2021-08-05T05:50:17Z")
Neary four years have gone by now but we have not forgotten; we will never forget: > **[Casino owner donating site for Las Vegas shooting memorial](https://apnews.com/article/business-shootings-las-vegas-philanthropy-las-vegas-mass-shooting-4f57543162ac6c193439ca51c752194d)** > > LAS VEGAS (AP) — The casino company that owns the former Las Vegas Strip concert venue that in 2017 became the site of the deadliest mass shooting in modern American history said Monday it is donating part of the property for a permanent memorial. > [@](#): > > MGM Resorts International called creation of a facility commemorating “victims and heroes of 1 October” vital to continued community recovery, and promised to keep working with a memorial panel on the design. > > Word of the donation comes as the committee again asked for the public to submit [opinions](https://apnews.com/article/www.ClarkCountyNV.gov/1OctoberMemorial) online through Aug. 15 about how the memorial should look. > > More than 65% of some 6,000 responses received during a two-week period in March called it extremely or very important to have the memorial at the site across Las Vegas Boulevard from the Mandalay Bay resort. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=22)