# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/101 "2017-10-02T15:57:02Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > … > All the pics & video is of “Police” cars, but the spokesperson is the Sheriff. Where I live they are separate entities; are they one in the same in LV? If different, what are the differences? Here, Sheriff’s don’t do patrol but more administrative side of law enforcement, handling prisoners, courthouse security, fugitive warrants, etc. > … It’s a combined bureaucratic entity: [Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Metropolitan_Police_Department) which has all the responsibilities for what most places call “police” and what most places call “sheriff.” Normally the force is just called “Metro” by the locals, the media, etc. The city proper of Las Vegas is a section of the overall urban/suburban mass which in turn is smaller than the overall footprint of Clark County. But the city proper is where almost all the tourist and casino stuff is. There are some incorporated cities / towns within Clark County with their own municipal police forces. But they’re a small fraction of the county total. During the 20 years I lived there they were widely regarded as a competent and trustworthy force. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/102 "2017-10-02T16:00:24Z")
On ISIS and claiming credit for stuff they didn’t do - Apparently they never used to, but now do. From the [Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates?page=with:block-59d259e0e4b00d657809cf6f#block-59d259e0e4b00d657809cf6f): > [@](#): > > _Jason Burke, the Guardian’s Africa correspondent and author of The New Threat, a work on the Islamic State and other terrorist groups, writes that the public and the press need to be skeptical of claims that the Las Vegas shooter converted to Islam or was somehow linked to an international group._ > > The Isis claim of responsibility for Las Vegas shooting appears to have been first published on Amaq news agency, an ISIS communication channel which has seen many previous such statements. We need to be very prudent assessing this one. The profile of the attacker alone urges extreme caution, and US officials have already said they have no evidence of any link to the group. > > Until around a year ago, Isis claims tended to be reliable. The group used carefully calibrated wording to indicate its degree of involvement of the group, and, if there was some exaggeration, there was limited outright fabrication. The group often provided proof of its involvement through videos recorded by attackers before an incident… > But in recent months Isis, facing military defeat and the loss of territories, have repeatedly made claims which have been shown to utterly unjustified. Isis claimed a role in the Westminster attacks in March – and an exhaustive investigation found no link. The group claimed a shooting in a Philippines casino in June, where the attacker was an gambler with large debts and a drinking problem. There are many other examples. > > This claim today describes the shooter in Las Vegas as a “soldier” of the Isis, who converted to Islam several months ago. This is theoretically possible of course but seems far fetched, not least because he committed suicide. > > Islamic militant groups launch “fedayeen” actions in which death is a near certainty, thus becoming “martyrs”, but they do not ever take their own lives in this way, which is seen as a terrible sin. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/103 "2017-10-02T16:02:56Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > All the pics & video is of “Police” cars, but the spokesperson is the Sheriff. Where I live they are separate entities; are they one in the same in LV? If different, what are the differences? Here, Sheriff’s don’t do patrol but more administrative side of law enforcement, handling prisoners, courthouse security, fugitive warrants, etc. Yes, I believe most of the country has both city police departments (at least in incorporated cities) and county sheriffs. Some places even have another layer on top of that via some “state police” organization. Las Vegas is different though in that the LVMPD is one single joint city-county law enforcement agency for Las Vegas and the wider Clark County. That’s why you had LVMPD officers present at the Bunkerville standoff. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/104 "2017-10-02T16:05:19Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Apparently, the police were aware of him > > [Las Vegas gunman dead and identified as Stephen Paddock - Raw Story](https://www.rawstory.com/2017/10/las-vegas-gunman-killed-but-companion-remains-at-large-as-person-of-interest/) No. That article doesn’t say that. It notes a citation issued, which is the only contact police had with him. Police aren’t “aware” of people they issue moving violation tickets to. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/105 "2017-10-02T16:08:26Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > His brother claims he has no political nor religious affiliations and just snapped. > > [Las Vegas shooter's brother says family is 'dumbfounded' | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4940800/Las-Vegas-shooter-s-brother-says-family-dumbfounded.html) > > I don’t believe him. This act took lots of planning. Not necessarily. It takes almost no planning to take guns into a hotel room. Less, once they’re there, to start shooting. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/106 "2017-10-02T16:12:56Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > If the response time was really all that fast perhaps that implies that they were already enroute when the shooting started. > > To gather the team, drive from HQ, enter the hotel, locate the room, and breach it is the work of WAG 20+ minutes. I haven’t followed the story closely enough to establish a timeline from Paddock’s first to last shot. But if it’s much less than that there must have been some early warning. No. The nearest police station to Mandalay Bay is, oh, 200 yards. It’s just south of Russell & the Strip. There’s a fire station there too. I’d be surprised if it took more than 6 minutes to get an armed team up to any room at Mandalay Bay. **Mosier** , I’ll be at the Venetian tomorrow; I’ll try and find you to say hello. ETA: > [@treis](#): > > The hotel doesn’t routinely search bags of hotel guests do they? Oh, you don’t “smuggle” guns to your hotel room any more than you smuggle a bag of groceries. No, there’s no security check on what people bring into the hotel. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/107 "2017-10-02T16:22:03Z")
I instantly thought of the Texas Tower sniper in Aug, 1966. There’s no defense against a sniper in a high building or tower. Police (on the ground) with hand guns are ineffective. It requires another sniper to remove the threat or storming his position with officers. My heart goes out to the victims and their families. It’s a horrible and senseless tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/108 "2017-10-02T16:23:21Z")
The more I listen to the tapes, the more it sounds like full auto. Which if true raises a whole bunch more questions. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/109 "2017-10-02T16:25:35Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I instantly thought of the Texas Tower sniper in Aug, 1966. > > There’s no defense against a sniper in a high building or tower. Police (on the ground) with hand guns are ineffective. > > My heart goes out to the victims and their families. It’s a horrible and senseless tragedy. I’d be quite surprised if most LVMPD police cruisers didn’t have a “patrol rifle” in the trunk or somewhere. That being said, a rookie cop firing an AR into the side of the Mandalay Bay from hundreds of yards away may not exactly be a recipe for success, but it would be an adequate tool for the job. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/110 "2017-10-02T16:26:39Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > It’s a combined bureaucratic entity: [Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Metropolitan_Police_Department) which has all the responsibilities for what most places call “police” and what most places call “sheriff.” Normally the force is just called “Metro” by the locals, the media, etc. > > The city proper of Las Vegas is a section of the overall urban/suburban mass which in turn is smaller than the overall footprint of Clark County. But the city proper is where almost all the tourist and casino stuff is. > > There are some incorporated cities / towns within Clark County with their own municipal police forces. But they’re a small fraction of the county total. > > During the 20 years I lived there they were widely regarded as a competent and trustworthy force. Parts of this are not accurate. The city of Las Vegas is very small. It is centered around downtown Las Vegas. The vast majority of the casinos and resorts are not in Las Vegas; they are in Clark County. There is a long and interesting story about taxes and zoning and the value of non-incorporation (if you find that kind of thing interesting), but the upshot is that they are not in Las Vegas. Everything on the Strip, everything you think of when you think “Las Vegas!” is actually in either the unincorporated township of Paradise (that’s where I live) or in just plain unincorporated Clark County. There are 2 other cities in the Las Vegas valley: Henderson and North Las Vegas. Both have their own police force, their own fire department, etc. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/111 "2017-10-02T16:29:38Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The more I listen to the tapes, the more it sounds like full auto. Which if true raises a whole bunch more questions. It raises questions in my mind too, but there are quite a few guns that are not terribly difficult to convert to full-auto fire, at least if one doesn’t mind risking the 10-year stay at Club Fed. In this guy’s case, that obviously wouldn’t be an impediment. Put me down now as one who will be quite surprised if it turns out to be a legally-owned civilian machine gun used in the shooting. I think something like a bump-fire stock or an illegally-modified gun are significantly more likely. ---
**Author:** ![HoneyBadgerDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/honeybadgerdc/32/1033_2.png) [@HoneyBadgerDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoneyBadgerDC)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/112 "2017-10-02T16:34:08Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > It’s especially sad that, along with the tragedy of thinking “oh shit, another mass shooting?” we have become so divided that, as we wait for info on who the shooter was, some Americans are probably saying “I hope it wasn’t some white supremacist or ant-Muslim nut” and the others are thinking, “I hope the shooter wasn’t a minority or antifa member.” While I’m politically predisposed toward the latter camp, frankly I hope it proves to be a lone nut with NO discernible political or religious ideology whatsoever. We don’t need any more divisiveness in our country. This is my thinking also, I guess the investigation will let us know his affiliations before too long. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/113 "2017-10-02T16:48:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It raises questions in my mind too, but there are quite a few guns that are not terribly difficult to convert to full-auto fire, at least if one doesn’t mind risking the 10-year stay at Club Fed. In this guy’s case, that obviously wouldn’t be an impediment. > > Put me down now as one who will be quite surprised if it turns out to be a legally-owned civilian machine gun used in the shooting. I think something like a bump-fire stock or an illegally-modified gun are significantly more likely. I’m not sure why it would be that surprising. Full auto guns, generally speaking, are available. There is just a limited supply which drives the price up to a level ($10k and up) where it’s not worth it for most people. This guy didn’t have a record and nothing would have stopped him from buying a full auto gun if he had the money. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/114 "2017-10-02T16:55:34Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’m not sure why it would be that surprising. Full auto guns, generally speaking, are available. There is just a limited supply which drives the price up to a level ($10k and up) where it’s not worth it for most people. This guy didn’t have a record and nothing would have stopped him from buying a full auto gun if he had the money. It’d be surprising because such weapons simply aren’t used, historically, in mass shooting. Some sort of unmodified AR pattern with large capacity is the most likely generally. In this case, I’m thinking bump stock or illegal modification of the lower receiver. While full auto is possible, I’d be surprised. Cheaper and easier to modify one or more semi-autos or even just have a bunch of rifles lined up and ready to remove the need to reload or in case of a jam. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/115 "2017-10-02T17:10:17Z")
Maybe this provides some insight – Paddock’s father spent eight years on the FBIs 10 Most Wanted list and had been diagnosed as a psychopath with suicidal tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/116 "2017-10-02T17:25:47Z")
Re: possible political motivations. It pains me to say that a country music festival isn’t a likely target pick for a right-wing nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/117 "2017-10-02T17:29:07Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > It’d be surprising because such weapons simply aren’t used, historically, in mass shooting. Some sort of unmodified AR pattern with large capacity is the most likely generally. In this case, I’m thinking bump stock or illegal modification of the lower receiver. While full auto is possible, I’d be surprised. Cheaper and easier to modify one or more semi-autos or even just have a bunch of rifles lined up and ready to remove the need to reload or in case of a jam. I agree that it would be unusual, if not unprecedented, for a legally acquired full auto to be used in a mass shooting. I’m just I see why it would be something to be “quite surprised” about. If you’re going to do a mass shooting from 30 stories up a machine gun is ideal and, if you have the money, it’s easiest to just buy it legally. To me, I see it as a logical step and not very surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/118 "2017-10-02T17:39:42Z")
Analysts discussing how common it is for people to visit Vegas to but or sell guns and check into hotels with cases of them. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/119 "2017-10-02T17:43:41Z")
My deepest condolences and heartfelt sympathies to anyone and everyone involved. This may be a grim thought, but I’m somehow surprised that these sorts of things don’t happen with even greater regularity, given how such incidents take some no-name schmoe and make them famous overnight. The fact that these things are still exceptional gives me hope that humanity, as a whole, is good. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/120 "2017-10-02T17:56:45Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Re: possible political motivations. It pains me to say that a country music festival isn’t a likely target pick for a right-wing nutjob. At this point I’m thinking ‘no-wing’ nutjob. But we’ll see - so far he seems pretty opaque. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=7)