# Mandalay Bay (Las Vegas) shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 2, 2017, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797 "2017-10-02T07:41:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/141 "2017-10-02T19:43:21Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > How many people were at the concert? 515 injured seems like a lot for an outdoor concert, especially since it was in an open field not an ampitheater. What’s the scoop? I’ve seen crowd size estimates of 22,000. Initial estimates were 30,000. It’s not an enormous area; about the size of a football field in a stadium, minus the stadium, is where the crowd gathers. [Google maps](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1CoxrxicMw4uSYPjPb20L6eQisoI&hl=en_US&ll=36.094828033453965%2C-115.17190119810863&z=18) - hit the satellite view in the lower left to see what it really looks like (that photo is not from this festival, eh). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/142 "2017-10-02T19:46:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Injured could mean almost anything, from shot-through-the-lung-and-on-life-support, to fell-and-skinned-your-knee-while-running-away, and anything in between. > > ETA: I really doubt he actually hit 515 individuals with gunfire. I’d be willing to bet that the majority of the injuries came from people running for their lives in a crowd. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/143 "2017-10-02T19:54:02Z")
Our local LA 5 has been on uninterrupted commercial free coverage. They did not do this for the election; for the hurricanes; the earthquake or anything else I can remember. I wonder if we fetishize violence as a society and unknowingly drive people to violent solutions. I understand the horror of this event and the pain we all are suffering. But this mass murderer is getting fame and attention he doesn’t deserve. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/144 "2017-10-02T20:24:06Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Injured could mean almost anything, from shot-through-the-lung-and-on-life-support, to fell-and-skinned-your-knee-while-running-away, and anything in between. > > ETA: I really doubt he actually hit 515 individuals with gunfire. Have you seen the videos? The sounds of shots being fired were continuous. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/145 "2017-10-02T20:27:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > The more I listen to the tapes, the more it sounds like full auto. Which if true raises a whole bunch more questions. I’m going to pretty much guarantee he was firing full auto. Whether it was a modified semi-auto or fully automatic remains to be seen. There are rumors of course. I even have cops telling me it had to be a M60 or 240b just by the sound. It sounded more like a SAW to me but I also know you can’t tell just by listening to audio from crappy cellphone mica. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’d be quite surprised if most LVMPD police cruisers didn’t have a “patrol rifle” in the trunk or somewhere. > > That being said, a rookie cop firing an AR into the side of the Mandalay Bay from hundreds of yards away may not exactly be a recipe for success, but it would be an adequate tool for the job. Firing at night, from a distance, at elevation, trying to aim at a possible muzzle flash on a building with reflective windows and flashing lights… not a good idea for those staying in the hotel. > [@E-DUB](#): > > Re: possible political motivations. It pains me to say that a country music festival isn’t a likely target pick for a right-wing nutjob. It was reported he was a country music fans. It likely is just a large number of people gathered that made it a target. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > It’s not uncommon at all for SWAT to be prestaged at large events like this one. I’m betting they were already there, very close and ready to respond. Not due to having early warning, but simply out of precaution and standard procedure. Very likely. Unlike small or regional departments, large urban departments have SWAT teams that do nothing else. They will stage for all big events rather than wait for a call out. They used explosive breeching so it was obvious that a special team made the entry. ---
**Author:** ![ShadowFacts](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shadowfacts/32/2934_2.png) [@ShadowFacts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShadowFacts)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/146 "2017-10-02T20:27:27Z")
My brother lives in Vegas and was on staff at the concert (I won’t get more specific because I don’t need internet sleuths trying to track him down). He was very lucky in that he went inside an office shortly after the headliner began to get some food, which was just before the shooting started. He and some other staff members hunkered down inside for a while (not sure how long), then grabbed some towels and whatever they could get their hands on to try to go help some of the injured, but were ordered back inside by police. He reported seeing about twenty dead bodies. ☹ He eventually was allowed to leave (along with a bunch of crew members who were staying at Mandalay Bay but could not return there), thankfully unscathed. He is incredibly lucky. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/147 "2017-10-02T20:40:39Z")
My heart and hugs go out to all affected by this. > [@madsircool](#): > > Our local LA 5 has been on uninterrupted commercial free coverage. They did not do this for the election; for the hurricanes; the earthquake or anything else I can remember. I wonder if we fetishize violence as a society and unknowingly drive people to violent solutions. I understand the horror of this event and the pain we all are suffering. But this mass murderer is getting fame and attention he doesn’t deserve. Yes, this is clearly part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/148 "2017-10-02T20:43:47Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I’d be willing to bet that the majority of the injuries came from people running for their lives in a crowd. I’m not so sure. He fired for 10-15 minutes in a pretty densely packed crowd using an automatic weapon. Even someone with poor aim is going to hit hundreds of people. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/149 "2017-10-02T20:44:08Z")
Answerable questions I’d like to see addressed: When did he reserve the room? And is there a paper trail on when/how he acquired the weapons? Both would say something about the degree of planning he did, which in turn would say something about his motives. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/150 "2017-10-02T20:44:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Firing at night, from a distance, at elevation, trying to aim at a possible muzzle flash on a building with reflective windows and flashing lights… not a good idea for those staying in the hotel. I agree. I was just trying to convey two ideas: 1. Many cops are not solely equipped with handguns these days. Rifles are quite common, at least in vehicles. 2. A run-of-the-mill AR-15 ought to be capable of accurate return fire at those distances, at least in the hands of a competent marksmen. After all, at least according to some initial reporting, the bad guy was using AR’s to shoot down at the crowd: > [@](#): > > [Las Vegas gunman Stephen Paddock bought more than 30 weapons and had more than a dozen stashed in his hotel room as he carried out the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history, Fox News learned Monday. > > The deadly cache included **converted, fully automatic AR-15 style assault rifles** with high capacity magazines, according to a law enforcement source. The weaponry suggests Paddock passed numerous FBI background checks. > > The source said police found **between 11 and 15 guns in his hotel room**. > > Weapons found were both . **308 and .223 caliber** , Fox News has learned. > > …]([Las Vegas shooting: Killer bought more than 30 weapons, source says | Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-killer-bought-more-than-30-weapons-source-says.html)) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/151 "2017-10-02T20:45:54Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Answerable questions I’d like to see addressed: When did he reserve the room? And is there a paper trail on when/how he acquired the weapons? Both would say something about the degree of planning he did, which in turn would say something about his motives. Fox News reported that “[Some of the weapons were bought in California.](http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooting-killer-bought-more-than-30-weapons-source-says.html)” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/152 "2017-10-02T20:47:39Z")
What a horror show. The video really did sound like full auto weapons. Whoever that stupid cow is who does press briefings [has uttered](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353484-white-house-now-not-time-to-debate-gun-control#.WdKZj00xhYU.facebook) the official and obligatory NRA line about “This is not the time or place to talk about blahblahblah.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/153 "2017-10-02T20:48:14Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’m not so sure. He fired for 10-15 minutes in a pretty densely packed crowd using an automatic weapon. Even someone with poor aim is going to hit hundreds of people. It wasn’t a densely packed crowd after the first couple of minutes. And full-auto is anything but a recipe for accuracy. In the initial seconds, before people scatter, it probably works just fine for the intended purpose. After people start running away and ducking behind cover, it gets a whole lot less effective. ETA: They call it “[spray and pray](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spray_and_pray)” for a reason. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/154 "2017-10-02T20:56:14Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > What a horror show. The video really did sound like full auto weapons. > > Whoever that stupid cow is who does press briefings [has uttered](http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/353484-white-house-now-not-time-to-debate-gun-control#.WdKZj00xhYU.facebook) the official and obligatory NRA line about “This is not the time or place to talk about blahblahblah.” Eh, it’s no worse than the stupid cow that was tweeting about a “silencer” this morning. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/155 "2017-10-02T20:59:33Z")
CBS has [fired a senior attorney](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/10/02/cbs-lawyer-fired-las-vegas-facebook-post-republican-gun-toters/724808001/)for comments she made. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/156 "2017-10-02T21:02:55Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > CBS has [fired a senior attorney](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/10/02/cbs-lawyer-fired-las-vegas-facebook-post-republican-gun-toters/724808001/)for comments she made. Oof. Yeah. I can’t exactly disagree with that (the firing, that is, despite my generally sympathetic politics.) What a fucking disgusting and dumb thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/157 "2017-10-02T21:03:34Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > CBS has [fired a senior attorney](https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2017/10/02/cbs-lawyer-fired-las-vegas-facebook-post-republican-gun-toters/724808001/)for comments she made. Yeah, for a (formerly-)high-paid attorney, that was an awfully stupid thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/158 "2017-10-02T21:10:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **HurricaneDitka** : > > 1. A run-of-the-mill AR-15 ought to be capable of accurate return fire at those distances, at least in the hands of a competent marksmen. > > After all, at least according to some initial reporting, the bad guy was using AR’s to shoot down at the crowd: Different standards of accuracy apply, here. The bad guy’s target was a crowd, and he (presumably) didn’t care which individual member of that crowd he hit. The police’s target is a single person, and they very much care about not accidentally hitting the guy next to him instead. And while an AR-15 might very well be adequate to the task of hitting an identified target at that range, it does nothing to help you with identifying the target in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/159 "2017-10-02T21:11:54Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > It wasn’t a densely packed crowd after the first couple of minutes. And full-auto is anything but a recipe for accuracy. In the initial seconds, before people scatter, it probably works just fine for the intended purpose. After people start running away and ducking behind cover, it gets a whole lot less effective. > > ETA: They call it “[spray and pray](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spray_and_pray)” for a reason. A concert like that is going to have an area of densely packed people easily 60-70 feet wide by a couple hundred feet deep. Unfortunately, spraying and praying in that type of situation is going to be highly effective. If you keep your shots within a ~500 square foot area you’ve got a good chance of hitting someone. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797/160 "2017-10-02T21:12:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yeah, for a (formerly-)high-paid attorney, that was an awfully stupid thing to say. Not to mention incredibly repugnant. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandalay-bay-las-vegas-shooting/797797.md?page=9)