# MANDATORY death sentences? Fuck off Singapore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2005, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400 "2005-11-23T09:14:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/184 "2005-11-30T19:28:20Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Just hitting the papers here… > > Singapore has denied an Australian government request that Nguyen’s mother be allowed to embrace him once before he dies. > Okay, so he’s going to die. All avenues of appeal have been exhausted. > > But this? > Cunts. Sadly, to be expected. The condemned are ultimately dehumanised there, from what I read. Kept physically apart from visitors behind screens, so the idea of a hug was always going to be out, no matter what level of furore. And they usually hang in secret, so the passing of a human life in this way is just another faceless, featureless factory operation, necessary for the progress of the state … I have two hopes, actually. One, that this business ultimately ceases, and two, that it doesn’t spread to other, more familiar places while we ourselves live in such fearfilled times. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/185 "2005-11-30T19:34:15Z")
> [@pace](#): > > Your latest post gave me a good ROFLMAO!!! The best 200 calories burned yet!!! 😃 Too bad the absurdity of it just shoots your rant down to pitiful blathering. > > Singapore is beautiful, clean, disease free, about-as-crime-free as you can imagine, everyone strives for excellence, AND people do have legal rights… it truly is a Paradise 🙂 Sounds like it, too. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/186 "2005-11-30T20:09:47Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Fuck your “societal context” bullshit and get back to a postmodern literary criticism class where you belong. Since you cannot understand this, I will help you with a few questions. Why do addicts commit crimes to obtain money? Why are communicable diseases readily tranfered between users? Why is heroin often used to assist suicide? Why do overdoses occur? Why are adulterated substances injected, leading to harm of the user? Now google ‘harm minimisation’. It is people with attitudes like yours that actually leads to this harm. Fortunately western society is slowly but surely progressing away from your simplistic mindset. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/187 "2005-11-30T20:20:02Z")
I’m against this in the way that I’m against all of the death penalty. But considering that my own country still practices this barbaric practice, this isn’t very high on my “concern” list. And the fact that this guy _specifically went to a country with the death penalty_ to commit his crimes takes it off completely. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/188 "2005-11-30T22:56:50Z")
A healthy, loved human being, who made a mistake that didn’t hurt anyone, will be dead in a matter of hours. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/189 "2005-11-30T23:06:16Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > A healthy, loved human being, who made a mistake that didn’t hurt anyone, will be dead in a matter of hours. A completely stupid fuckup was told if he did something he’d be killed. He did it. And now he’s going to be killed. Fuck him. Fuck him right in the ear. This isn’t injustice, it’s natural selection. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/190 "2005-11-30T23:59:24Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > Since you cannot understand this, I will help you with a few questions. I understand it just fine. I have known and talked with hundreds of people with drug and alcohol addictions in the last year alone. How many first-hand accounts do you get? You are about to be the one recognized as simplistic. > [@antechinus](#): > > Why do addicts commit crimes to obtain money? Because addiction leads to excessive consumption. It doesn’t matter always if it is legal or not. Back when I still drank, my monthly alcohol bills were in the $800+ range a month and they were only that low because I didn’t usually drink in bars. Many people couldn’t afford that. There are popular illegal drugs like Oxycontin that are also prescribed drugs and Oxycontin addiction quickly strips users of cash even at pharmacy prices. Here is where you answer. Who is supposed to make the drugs in your world? Where do the profits go? Will they be subsidized so that any addict can afford any desired quantity for personal use? That is what it will take to greatly cut down on drug-related crime. The trad-off is that you will have people drugged out of their mine with a huge incentive to go to rehab removed. It also poses huge health risks up to and including the death of oneself and others. > [@antechinus](#): > > Why are communicable diseases readily transferred between users? Two reasons. 1) Users of injectable drugs tend to share needles 2) Drug users tend to engage in other risky behaviors like unsafe sex with other drug users. I believe you are hinting at legal needles. There you go, being a simpleton again. Sure, needle programs are a good idea but that doesn’t address the OP. It also doesn’t stop the problem of diseases being transmitted through needle sharing. Drug users may just not have enough needles on hand sometime and decide that the risk is better than withdrawal. > [@antechinus](#): > > Why is heroin often used to assist suicide? I see, you are cunning. You throw random shit out there to see if profound incongruities will throw me off. Back at ya. What is the sound of one hand clapping if Heller Keller feels it’s wind? > [@antechinus](#): > > Why do overdoses occur? Because people take too much of the drug. This can be either from getting some drug that has a higher purity than usual or because the drugged state leads them to push their limits more and more until they die. Addiction can weaken bodily system like the heart and respiration so that their body just fails under the stress of drugs that they have tolerated before. > [@antechinus](#): > > Why are adulterated substances injected, leading to harm of the user? Because at some point in the supply chain, someone decided to artificially boost the supply of the drug with an adulterant. I fail to see how that is supposed be an argument in favor on leniency for drug dealers and traffickers. > [@antechinus](#): > > Now google ‘harm minimisation’. Cool, that Google sure is fast isn’t it. All that stuff has to due with end users. We are talking about dealers and traffickers here. Can you please stay on topic? The one drug we really need around here is some Ritalin. > [@antechinus](#): > > It is people with attitudes like yours that actually leads to this harm. Fortunately western society is slowly but surely progressing away from your simplistic mindset. OK, your turn. What did any of this have to do with the topic at hand? Saying that parts of the War on Drugs here doesn’t mean that it is a total waste nor does it mean that those results will apply to a country with strict control of its citizens. You seem to advocate some wishy-washy sort of view that some hard drugs should be legal? How would that work? Outline the whole supply chain, how people get the supply to get them hooked in the first place, how desired quantities will be dispensed, and who will by the drugs for users that can’t afford it? Alcohol is our one major drug drug of abuse that is legal. Alcoholics make up about 10% of the adult population while addicts of all the other addictive drugs together (other than tobacco) make up somewhere between 2%- 4% of the population. What do you think will happen if we just legalize these drugs and sell them like alcohol. Alcohol usually takes many months to years to become addicted to even with frequent use. Drugs like Meth and Crack can turn a Wall-Street sensation into a crack whore in just a few months. I have no idea what all this had to do with a scum bag you weighed his own risk balance and lost. I doubt you do either. Anyway, what are you proposing and how would it work? The key words here are actionable ideas. Keep it less wishy-washy this time. It makes it sound like you are high right now. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/191 "2005-12-01T01:38:23Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > will be dead in a matter of hours. I seem to have screwed up the International Date Line thing. He’s scheduled to die in about 23 hours. Anyway. The issue isn’t ‘He broke the Law Of The Land. The Law specifies death.’ It’s that his crime, by the standards of most civilised nations, does not deserve the death penalty. He didn’t kill anyone. Since he was caught, the drugs he carried did not kill anyone. This was a first offense. Not even here in the States do we kill couriers. Yes, drugs are bad (M’kay?). I know someone who died of an overdose. I know others whose lives have been ruined by drugs. I still don’t think that the courier should be killed. It’s all very well to talk about ‘drug dealers’. But they are still human beings. People can change. But only if they’re alive. But no. People here are praising Singapore for killing this hapless schmuck. No doubt there will be high-fives when he’s dead. Oh, yeah. Singapore is completely against drugs. They’ll kill stupid kids who have done no harm. But when it comes to Burma, they turn a blind eye. Hypocritical bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/192 "2005-12-01T01:55:45Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I seem to have screwed up the International Date Line thing. He’s scheduled to die in about 23 hours. > > Anyway. The issue isn’t ‘He broke the Law Of The Land. The Law specifies death.’ It’s that his crime, by the standards of most civilised nations, does not deserve the death penalty. He didn’t kill anyone. Since he was caught, the drugs he carried did not kill anyone. How do you feel about the death penalty for treason if there is no direct proof that anyone would be killed by it and the intelligence was intercepted? Treason is often the highest ranking capital crime in western countries and sometimes the only crime where the death penalty is still allowed. I am not saying it is completely comparable but drug trafficking does threaten the core of what Singapore vigilantly tries to maintain. They have the right to send a strong and clear signal to people not to do those things in their country. Check the newspapers during the next few weeks and you see that these jobs are all open despite great pay. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/193 "2005-12-01T01:59:51Z")
The drug laws, like prohibition in the past, tend to be disgustingly hypocritical. I’m actually for the death penalty, but not in cases like this. I’m in the “legalize drugs” camp. That’s sure to piss people off. I’d argue why, but others have stated it better than I have. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not pro-drug, but I sure as hell am pro-choice about it. Most people who do drugs choose to do and so demand it and when something is demanded, it’s supplied. Keeping it illegal is actually part of the problem(drug dealers, cartels, etc), not the solution, but people just don’t want to believe that. The Aussie boy was stupid, but no way in hell does he deserve to die. I feel for him and his family and all those who have died because of laws like this. I’m sure people will be happy, but I won’t be. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/194 "2005-12-01T01:59:58Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Anyway. The issue isn’t ‘He broke the Law Of The Land. The Law specifies death.’ It’s that his crime, by the standards of most civilised nations, does not deserve the death penalty. He didn’t kill anyone. Since he was caught, the drugs he carried did not kill anyone. This was a first offense. Not even here in the States do we kill couriers. Yes, drugs are bad (M’kay?). I know someone who died of an overdose. I know others whose lives have been ruined by drugs. I still don’t think that the courier should be killed. It’s all very well to talk about ‘drug dealers’. But they are still human beings. People can change. But only if they’re alive. But no. People here are praising Singapore for killing this hapless schmuck. No doubt there will be high-fives when he’s dead. Oh, yeah. Singapore is completely against drugs. They’ll kill stupid kids who have done no harm. But when it comes to Burma, they turn a blind eye. Hypocritical bastards. That’s all completely beside the point, you complete fucking idiot. It is well known that if you’re caught with drugs in any way shape or form in Singapore the penalties are severe. He knew this, and went through Singapore as a drug courier anyway. If his crime was to wear black face paint and it was well known that wearing black face paint in Singapore carried the death penalty I’d have just as little sympathy for the little moron. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/195 "2005-12-01T02:05:18Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > That’s all completely beside the point, you complete fucking idiot. It is well known that if you’re caught with drugs in any way shape or form in Singapore the penalties are severe. > > He knew this, and went through Singapore as a drug courier anyway. > > If his crime was to wear black face paint and it was well known that wearing black face paint in Singapore carried the death penalty I’d have just as little sympathy for the little moron. No, _you_ are missing the point. It doesn’t matter that that’s the law in Singapore. What matters is that Singapore’s law is _wrong_. Killing a courier is absolutely an unfair punishment. Another poster pointed out that simply being Jewish in Germany 60 -odd years ago was punishable by death. Do you agree that it was okay to kill them? After all, their executions were perfectly acceptable under the law. People are being shot to death in North Korea today for speaking against the government. Why not? It’s against the law. Line 'em up! This is not justice. The law is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/196 "2005-12-01T02:19:30Z")
> [@Silentgoldfish](#): > > blah blah blah blah… > > you complete fucking idiot. > > blah blah blah blah Question? Is THAT how you speak to people in real life? If it is, I assure you that people are only hearing what I’ve quoted above in the way I’ve quoted it. Namely, the message totally disappears and only the personal attack remains. If that’s the way you talk to people in real life, that’s unbelievably sad - for the people who have to put up with it. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/197 "2005-12-01T02:21:42Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > No, _you_ are missing the point. It doesn’t matter that that’s the law in Singapore. What matters is that Singapore’s law is _wrong_. Why is the death penalty “wrong” in this case? If I say it is “right” two times does that cancel out yours? Drug trafficking is wrong on many levels and directly affects other people up to and including death of users and innocents. It is in no way comparable to simply “being” Jewish or anything else. It is an actively chosen and plotted crime with great risks to individuals and societies. How is the law wrong in your own words? You must be evaluating it according to some external criteria. Is it direct from the word of God or is just part of a quasi-religious humanistic belief? Where did you get this information and how did you process it? I just look at it like Singapore really doesn’t want drugs in their country. That is understandable and it is hardly a victimless crime. People know the consequences and the reason for engaging in it is almost purely financial. I see no problem in opening it up detention, whipping, the death penalty, or live slow dissection if that is what they think is best. The opt-out plan on that deal is unusually straightforward. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/198 "2005-12-01T02:25:31Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > Question? Is THAT how you speak to people in real life? If it is, I assure you that people are only hearing what I’ve quoted above in the way I’ve quoted it. Namely, the message totally disappears and only the personal attack remains. If that’s the way you talk to people in real life, that’s unbelievably sad - for the people who have to put up with it. You aren’t supposed to misquote people you fucking idiot. Don’t lecture until you get your own shit straight. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/199 "2005-12-01T02:30:23Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Is it direct from the word of God? ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill.’ – God More to the point: The quality of mercy is not strain’d It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven Upon the place beneath; it is twice bless’d; It blesseth him that gives and him that takes: Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes The throned monarch better than his crown; His sceptre shows the force of temporal power, The attribute to awe and majesty, Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings; But mercy is above this sceptred sway, It is enthroned in the hearts of kings, It is an attribute to God himself, And earthly power then doth show likest God’s When mercy seasons justice. - – Portia, _The Merchant Of venice_, Act IV, Scene I, William Shakespeare\* ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/200 "2005-12-01T02:51:21Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > The quality of mercy is not strain’d > It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven > Upon the place beneath; it is twice bless’d; > It blesseth him that gives and him that takes: > Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes > The throned monarch better than his crown; > His sceptre shows the force of temporal power, > The attribute to awe and majesty, > Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings; > But mercy is above this sceptred sway, > It is enthroned in the hearts of kings, > It is an attribute to God himself, > And earthly power then doth show likest God’s > When mercy seasons justice. > > - – Portia, _The Merchant Of venice_, Act IV, Scene I, William Shakespeare\* Well, I could post some unknown foreign language poem too but what would that prove? ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/201 "2005-12-01T02:59:27Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You aren’t supposed to misquote people you fucking idiot. Don’t lecture until you get your own shit straight. Oh bullshit… what are you saying? That because I chose to demonstrate my point in a manner which you don’t approve of, that the message is now somehow magically invalid? Sure, I could have quoted all of the original quote… I could have bolded what I needed to. Or, alternatively, I could have used the “\” tags which are so common too. All of which would have met your standards, and then what would you have said about my point? That it was still invalid? The message still stands… I used the words “blah blah blah blah \ blah blah blah” to demonstrate how a personal attack on someone drowns out the message. But if you’re gonna try and argue that inserting “blah blah blah blah” into a quote instead of “\” somehow invalidates my point, I’m just gonna think of an ostrich with it’s head in the sand. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/202 "2005-12-01T04:51:58Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > ‘Thou Shalt Not Kill.’ – God Some Bible scholars would argue that this means “Thou shall not murder”, but going in that direction will be a hijack. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/203 "2005-12-01T05:01:10Z")
> [@Boo Boo Foo](#): > > Oh bullshit… what are you saying? That because I chose to demonstrate my point in a manner which you don’t approve of, that the message is now somehow magically invalid? > > Sure, I could have quoted all of the original quote… I could have bolded what I needed to. Or, alternatively, I could have used the “\” tags which are so common too. Yes, you could have, but you didn’t. You misquoted, and that is a rules violation. **Boo Boo Foo** , regardless of your opinions of another poster, you are NOT allowed to misquote them, even obviously. Emphasis or truncating for length are acceptable (when noted in the quotation). This is the Pit, so call them out if you feel that you must, but misquoting is a definite rules violation and is not permitted. Misquoting is in fact a bannable offense and we take it seriously. This is an official Warning. Do not do this again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400.md?page=11)