# MANDATORY death sentences? Fuck off Singapore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2005, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400 "2005-11-23T09:14:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/344 "2005-12-06T02:38:05Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You aren’t invisible (although that would be pretty cool though huh?). The problem is in our definitions of _detailed._. Even this is the tip of the iceberg. Fair enough. Thanks for finally responding. > [@](#): > > 1. HERE IS THE BIG ONE - new addicts will be created faster than ever before. I can’t see how anyone could say otherwise. The number of addicts certainly isn’t going to go down and there must be at least a few people that have never tried hard drugs because they are illegal and somewhat difficult for the average person to find. Availability will be greatly increased even for those underage. Both alcohol and tobacco are addictive (but not always in the same people) and those are two serious problems that we already have. We would only open it up to more and it will be quite the bruden to place on hospitals, rehab centers, families, workplaces etc. I just can’t see a huge increase in users of hard drugs following legalization. I doubt that most people who use drugs that they know could kill them are deterred by the slight chance of arrest. Again I have to ask why we did not have a nation full of cocaine and heroin addicts at the turn of the 20th century? Criminalization does nothing but compound the problem. Compare a cleaned-up heroin junky who was once convicted of possession, to a recovering alcoholic who never got convicted of a crime. Which of them do you think will have an easier time finding a job when he gets out of rehab? > [@](#): > > How many detox and rehab beds is this measure going to create and who is going to pay for it? Before you say, the drug companies, keep in mind how expensive rehab is, a significant portion of the users will eventually need it, and most of them will need it multiple times. Figure an average cost of $7000 for a ten day detox and rehab. Those on the first attempt will probably go through several more in a few years. Well, there are plenty of addicts as it is. Do you really think legalization will produce so many more addicts that costs of their healthcare will outweigh the tens of billions of dollars a year currently spent on the drug war? > [@](#): > > Will it be allowable for people like teachers and nurses to test positive for crack or heroin? Do we allow teachers and nurses to show up to work drunk? > [@](#): > > This is what I mean about a “detailed” plan. These details can’t be glossed over. You somehow believe that you can just turn over the illegal drug industry and everything will be fine. Every little restriction you put on them curtails the effectiveness of the measure. Addicts can be pretty selective. Is the legal drug market going to try and out-invent the illegal drug trade when it comes to new drugs and variations on them? Cocaine in a pill isn’t good enough for your average crack addict. Remember that we already have one legal opiate called Methadone that addicts can get everyday. Yet, it isn’t good enough for many of them and it is an addictive drug on its own. The industry would have to do both innovation and marketing to stay relevant to the problems it is trying to curtail. Who says cocaine would have to be sold in a pill? And who says that the industry would have to be innovative? Cocaine HCl is cocaine HCl, whether it’s being used in 1875, or in 2075. Also, from what I’ve heard (no personal experience), addicts tend not to like Methadone because the euphoric effects of it are far less pronounced than other opiates. > [@](#): > > How are people going to get drugs to get them addicted in the first place. Will they just sell them at the liquor store Sure, why not? Why should one man’s poison be sold openly, while another’s lands him in prison? > [@](#): > > Production costs for some of the opiates and cocaine can be very high. Once you figure in R&D, state of the art production, liability costs, quality control, and multiple levels of distribution, we may find that some drugs are still pretty damned expensive. What would the point be then? R&D? We’re talking about drugs that have been around for more than a century, here! Additionally, many of these drugs are already being produced by pharmaceutical companies. Methamphetamine and cocaine are both Schedule II drugs in the U.S., and heroin is available by prescription in the U.K. Supply chain and liability issues don’t make for a very compelling argument either, when you consider the legal intoxicants that have to jump over the same hurdles. The companies that produce them still manage to remain profitable, and their products are still affordable. These concerns of yours seem rather pedantic when compared to the obscene monetary costs and social problems borne entirely of the War on Drugs. > [@](#): > > Oxycontin is a popular addictive drug that can also be gotten legally through prescription. Many addicts build up to a multiple 80 mg pill (the highest commonly available) habit a day. That is still prohibitively expensive for most addicts if they have to pay for it legally. I don’t know if Oxycontin is such a good example. AFAIK, it’s still under patent, which drives the cost up. Also, it’s a time-release medication. Those tend to be more expensive than their shorter-acting cousins. The last time I was prescribed oxycodone (for the removal of my wisdom teeth a few years back), the stuff was dirt cheap. Hydrocodone, too - hell, that stuff is the single most frequently prescribed drug in the United States, at over 92 million prescriptions written every year. The cocktail of amphetamines known as Adderall is pretty high up on that list, as well. > [@](#): > > You would have to have one kick-ass national drug program to not have any illegal drug dealers. How are the kids going to supplied? Those that just want a little something extra? Then we must have one kick-ass plan for legally distributing alcohol, because I’m not seeing too many Capone-style bootlegging gangs roaming the country. ---
**Author:** ![Jurhael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/cab0a1/32.png) [@Jurhael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurhael)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/345 "2005-12-06T06:18:16Z")
**neutron star** , you have more patience than I do, that’s for sure. I tend not to pay attention to others when it comes to an issue like this. I mean, I know the arguements, they just don’t mean anything to me. That being said, I was always under the impression that stuff like cocaine and heroine would be sold in pharmacies rather than liquor stores. I, for one, wouldn’t do any of the drugs should they be legalized and those who prefer not to do any drugs probably wouldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/346 "2005-12-06T06:27:06Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > R&D? We’re talking about drugs that have been around for more than a century, here! This comment made me thin of something I never considerd before. If all drugs were leaglized, wouldn’t there be companies who would actually invest in develloping new drugs? New drugs do already appear currently, but wouldn’t laboratories create drugs R&D departments, and wouldn’t a lot of new drugs appear on a regular basis? Would this be an issue, or not? ---
**Author:** ![Floyd13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@Floyd13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floyd13)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/347 "2005-12-06T08:57:10Z")
I agree with you about the death penalty in general. I hate it for any crime. Unfortunately, we do have the death penalty and it is possible to get it if they frame you for _murder_. It seems to me that it would be much easier to frame someone for drugs than for murder. Or what if you weren’t framed, but rather a drug dealer snuck the drugs into your bag with the intent of recovering said drugs later? I don’t think this comparison is as simple as you think it is. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/348 "2005-12-06T12:12:46Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > This comment made me thin of something I never considerd before. If all drugs were leaglized, wouldn’t there be companies who would actually invest in develloping new drugs? New drugs do already appear currently, but wouldn’t laboratories create drugs R&D departments, and wouldn’t a lot of new drugs appear on a regular basis? Would this be an issue, or not? To a certain degree, corporations are already doing this. Stronger opiate derivatives are being developed for pain, and stimulants are being developed to promote wakefulness, and to aid in weight loss. > [@Jurhael](#): > > neutron star, you have more patience than I do, that’s for sure. I tend not to pay attention to others when it comes to an issue like this. I mean, I know the arguements, they just don’t mean anything to me. Well, soft drug legalization is a no-brainer, but I think that there’s still room for reasoned debate on the merits of such a plan for hard drugs, and since such a small portion of the populace agrees with me on the issue, I do like to state my case when given the opportunity. Sometimes there are angles that criminalization proponents may not have considered. > [@](#): > > That being said, I was always under the impression that stuff like cocaine and heroine would be sold in pharmacies rather than liquor stores. I think that making the drugs harder to obtain would only serve to carve a nice little niche for illegal drug dealers. I’d like to put them out of business entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/349 "2005-12-06T13:38:56Z")
> [@Floyd13](#): > > I agree with you about the death penalty in general. I hate it for any crime. Unfortunately, we do have the death penalty and it is possible to get it if they frame you for _murder_. It seems to me that it would be much easier to frame someone for drugs than for murder. Or what if you weren’t framed, but rather a drug dealer snuck the drugs into your bag with the intent of recovering said drugs later? I don’t think this comparison is as simple as you think it is. I more or less agree with you now; I guess I’d be really concerned about this if there seemed to be widespread incidence of this kind of framing, or any at all, for that matter. Is there though? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/350 "2005-12-07T23:37:15Z")
> [@Floyd13](#): > > I am no drug dealer and there is no way in fucking hell I’m ever going to Singa-fucking-pore. What if you go there for vacation and someone plants some drugs on you? Death for you. This country is sad and pathetic and hopefully no one ever goes there again. Fuck you Singapore and your hypocritical laws. May your tourism industry sink like a fucking rock. LIKE A FUCKING ROCK. Given that hypocritical is defined as > [@](#): > > adj. > > 1. Characterized by hypocrisy: hypocritical praise. > 2. Being a hypocrite: a hypocritical rogue. and hyprocrisy is defined as > [@](#): > > n. pl. hy·poc·ri·sies > > 1. The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness. > 2. An act or instance of such falseness. Ummm…what is hypocritical about their laws? They state very, very, VERY clearly that you will incur the death penalty if you engage in the drug trade. Nothing hypocritical about that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400.md?page=17)