# MANDATORY death sentences? Fuck off Singapore. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 23, 2005, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400 "2005-11-23T09:14:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/143 "2005-11-25T11:50:20Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Violating a law isn’t in itself wrong. It might even be a moral duty, depending on the circumstances. Moral duty or not, though, breaking the law has consequences ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/144 "2005-11-25T12:20:54Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I wouldn’t say it was OK to execute people for sex outside of marriage. However, I am also intelligent/educated enough to know that in a LOT of societies other than ours sex outside of marriage IS a crime that carries severe punishment, in some cases all the way up to death. > > Sure, protest to the Sudanese government… it’s worth a try. It will likely have about the same effect as, say, European governments trying to pressure the US government to abolish the death penalty. In other words, not much. > > There seems to be an amazing lack of comprehension that when you cross an international border _the rules change._ You do not carry the laws of your home country with you when you travel. You are subject to the laws of the country you are currently in. I wasn’t addressing you, I was addressing cow-underpants. Don’t tell me I don’t comprehend that different countries have different laws, I know bloody well they do. It’s just that cow-underpants very firmly stated his/her belief that the correct response of the government to that situation is to do jack shit, and I was calling shame on his/her lack of basic humanity. You’re correct to say it’s worth a try to protest. I’d go further and say that the government of the country of the woman concerned has an ethical obligation to protest and put diplomatic pressure on the country that will execute her. This ethical obligation arises because of a) their being a government and b) their being a collection of human beings, like you and me and the woman who will be stoned. You’re also right to say protesting is probably futile. Governments do indeed routinely reserve themselves the right to kill whomever they please, for any reasons or none. Funnily enough I don’t get a warm fuzzy feeling at this exercise of the sacrosanct concept of national sovereignty. This thread’s been quite an eye-opener for me. I really do despair that in a country that gave the world the Bill of Rights, and nearly tore itself apart to end slavery, there is so _much_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _states_, and so _little_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _individual humans_, who are, after all, the reasons for states to exist, and not the other way round. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/145 "2005-11-25T15:19:59Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > I wasn’t addressing you, I was addressing cow-underpants. Don’t tell me I don’t comprehend that different countries have different laws, I know bloody well they do. I’m sorry - I didn’t mean to direct that statement directly at you, more in a general way. Apologies if that wasn’t clear. > [@](#): > > You’re correct to say it’s worth a try to protest. I’d go further and say that the government of the country of the woman concerned has an ethical obligation to protest and put diplomatic pressure on the country that will execute her. This ethical obligation arises because of a) their being a government and b) their being a collection of human beings, like you and me and the woman who will be stoned. You know, I can agree with that - the woman’s home country does have an ethical obligation to do _something_, even if it is unlikely to get a positive result. > [@](#): > > Governments do indeed routinely reserve themselves the right to kill whomever they please, for any reasons or none. Funnily enough I don’t get a warm fuzzy feeling at this exercise of the sacrosanct concept of national sovereignty. Neither do I. > [@](#): > > This thread’s been quite an eye-opener for me. I really do despair that in a country that gave the world the Bill of Rights, and nearly tore itself apart to end slavery, there is so _much_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _states_, and so _little_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _individual humans_, who are, after all, the reasons for states to exist, and not the other way round. Maybe I’ve just gotten old and cynical. I can’t get my own government to stop executing people _here_ - what chance do I have to influence what happens in Singapore or Sudan? ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/146 "2005-11-25T15:44:20Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > I wasn’t addressing you, I was addressing cow-underpants. Don’t tell me I don’t comprehend that different countries have different laws, I know bloody well they do. It’s just that cow-underpants very firmly stated his/her belief that the correct response of the government to that situation is to do jack shit, and I was calling shame on his/her lack of basic humanity. You’re very young aren’t you? You seem to have no concept of the fact that your personal morality, or the general morality of the society you live in, are NOT universal concepts, and you have no right to impose them on other societies.\* > [@Nancarrow](#): > > You’re correct to say it’s worth a try to protest. I’d go further and say that the government of the country of the woman concerned has an ethical obligation to protest and put diplomatic pressure on the country that will execute her. I agree with you. However, beyond protesting, sending a personal letter from one PM to another, etc…, how far should a government go? Economic sanctions? Yea, there’s a great idea, ruin the lives of who knows how many workers and businesspeople to save the life of one piece of shit drug runner. War? Sure, we’ll cause thousands to die so that Betty Sue isn’t stoned for fucking around on her husband. Sarcasm aside, those are the choices you’re left with. Which one of those do you think is appropriate in the Singapore case? In the Sudanese case? What price are you willing to pay simply to save the life of someone who knowingly violated the laws of their host country, knowing the penalties they would face if they did so. > [@Nancarrow](#): > > This thread’s been quite an eye-opener for me. I really do despair that in a country that gave the world the Bill of Rights, and nearly tore itself apart to end slavery, there is so _much_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _states_, and so _little_ attention given to the sovereignty and rights of _individual humans_, who are, after all, the reasons for states to exist, and not the other way round. Yes, it’s terrible here. Please have your government put diplomatic pressure on the U.S. government to free us all from the tyranny we face every day. Oh, and one further thing, about your wonderful type B drug dealer, you’re forgetting one thing: While he may be spending his leisure time mowing your lawn, washing your car and discovering a cure for cancer, the majority of his customers are not, and his presence in your neighborhood means their presence. This is the exact thing that is going on in my neighborhood, trust me, it’s not a happy situation (even though the guy who owns and lives in the drug house is a very nice, friendly person) \*Yes, I realize there are situations where one country may decide to intervene in another’s business through sanctions or war, and would be right to do so, or may even feel morally compelled to do so, but we are clearly not talking about issues of that magnitude in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/147 "2005-11-25T15:49:22Z")
I can’t speak for Australia but my passport application clearly explains that my government cannot help me if I choose to break the law in a foreign country. But I think what is really being overlooked in all of this is the cultural divide. I am also opposed to the death penalty. But I am not so arogant as to foist my views on another country. Singapore doesn’t execute nearly the number of people that the state of Texas does. Which crimes are greater or lesser is such a subjective/cultural thing really. I believe they have every right to feel radically different from us on issues such as the wanton distruction of valuable personal property as the ultimate sin : waste,(in America this was viewed as childish prank /misdemeanor). I’m certain they feel allowing the populace to all arm themselves is sheer idiocy. But they respect that it’s your country if you feel it works for you have at it. And in this issue there is also a cultural divide, I feel. The Australian government would have been wiser to keep it’s mouth shut in the press and operate quietly. Allow this government to make the show of power it feels is required. A government concerned with not looking as though it is giving in to outside pressure or, treating foreigners differently from locals. Surely you can understand this. No, every time this sort of conflict occurs the western reaction is the same. Lots of loud and threatening rhetoric, reams of verbage, hordes of press, comparisons as wild as we’ve seen here in this very thread. If the Auzzie government really wanted to save this soul, they should shut up and take it like a man, while the S’pore government tries and convicts. Sure they can fill the papers with sympathetic words and regrets to placate the home crowd. But they could then, I believe, through tactful diplomatic channels, have a chance to quietly (so as to save the S’porean government any embarassment), have this person’s sentence commuted so it could be served in Australia where there is no DP and this person could just do their time. But all chance for this solution evaporates when westerners go straight to the press, focusing lots of attention on the matter, making wild and misplaced accusations and comparisons and effectively tying the hands of the government and, sadly, sealing this fellows fate. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2005, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/149 "2005-11-25T22:54:44Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Really, my point is (and has been) that it’s unfair to call **all** drug dealers scum because a certain percentage of them (whatever that percentage may be) are violent assholes. You can make all the annoyingly snide and pointless comments you want about my location, **Linty Fresh** , but that doesn’t change the fact that you are painfully off-base in lumping every single dealer in with child molesters and contract killers, groups in which, by definition, every single member has committed a violent crime. They’re scum because they’re criminals, simple as that. Your average drug dealer is a lot like your average member of the mafia c. 1930s. While there was a lot of publicity about mafia murders, believe it or not most members of these criminal organizations weren’t rampant murderers. They were simply businessmen who’s business was criminal in nature. And yeah, a lot of these guys were people you could probably sit down with and have a decent conversation, “regular people” you know. Anyways, suburban drug dealers typically aren’t independent and have higher ups who do pretty nasty things, any drug dealer who has a supplier is just contributing to criminality, murder, and exploitation. No matter how much fun you had getting high with them or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/150 "2005-11-26T03:41:26Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > \*Yes, I realize there are situations where one country may decide to intervene in another’s business through sanctions or war, and would be right to do so, or may even feel morally compelled to do so, but we are clearly not talking about issues of that magnitude in this thread. Maybe not issues of the magnitude of war or economic sanctions, but I would argue that there is a case for good ol’ _pressure_ to be applied in this case. As a country which staunchly opposes the death penalty, Australia has a right to exert whatever pressure it can on Singapore, just as Singapore has the sovereign right to tell us to sod off. Political and diplomatic pressure is applied between nations all the time - even between allies. Take Australia and the US for instance - pretty buddy-buddy most of the time - staunch alies in fact, but when it comes to things like farming subsidies or trade agreements, the gloves invariably come off. There’s nothing wrong with sticking it to Singapore in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/151 "2005-11-26T04:13:21Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Maybe not issues of the magnitude of war or economic sanctions, but I would argue that there is a case for good ol’ _pressure_ to be applied in this case. As a country which staunchly opposes the death penalty, Australia has a right to exert whatever pressure it can on Singapore, just as Singapore has the sovereign right to tell us to sod off. Political and diplomatic pressure is applied between nations all the time - even between allies. Take Australia and the US for instance - pretty buddy-buddy most of the time - staunch alies in fact, but when it comes to things like farming subsidies or trade agreements, the gloves invariably come off. > > There’s nothing wrong with sticking it to Singapore in this case. Yes, which is why I said I agreed with these measures in the post you are replying to. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2005, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/152 "2005-11-26T11:50:26Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Yes, which is why I said I agreed with these measures in the post you are replying to. Yes, apologies. I must have missed that para in amongst the quotes. Saw it almost as soon as I posted. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/153 "2005-11-29T10:47:53Z")
As the day for the execution of Van Nguyen draws closer, I wanted to bump this thread for no other reason than to clear my mind. I am under no allusions that this man is innocent of hs crimes. He has committed a reprehensible act in my opinion, by attempting to traffic in drugs. He deserves a severe penalty not only to deter him, but to deter others from attempting the same. He was hoping to profit monetarily from his crime, so he was no smacked-out user trying to finance his habit. He was caught in the act, with no defence available. He is\*\* guilty \*\* as charged, yes? I’m still unable to comprehend a MANDATORY death sentence in this case. Van Nguyen confessed his crimes at the airport (despite what contrary claims **Icewolf** makes) and he is a young man without prior convictions and with an excellent chance of being rehabilitated. I’ll be damned if I see him die without a fucking fight. Fuck YOU SINGAPORE, you rotten arseholes. Execute Truong Van Nguyen? Just try it. See what happens then fuckers. ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/154 "2005-11-29T11:18:43Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I’ll be damned if I see him die without a fucking fight. > > Fuck YOU SINGAPORE, you rotten arseholes. > > Execute Truong Van Nguyen? Just try it. See what happens then fuckers. Why should he get special treatment? I’m tired of this attitude that foreigners, often stupid young adults, should get more lenient treatment than locals convicted of the same crime. It reeks of colonialism. ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/155 "2005-11-29T11:25:14Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > I’m still unable to comprehend a MANDATORY death sentence in this case. Van Nguyen confessed his crimes at the airport (despite what contrary claims **Icewolf** makes). Here’s what you said, **kambuckta** : > [@](#): > > He pleaded guilty at the court hearing, and also offered to assist the police by naming his ‘sources’ and the syndicate who had paid him to import the drugs. And the “claims” of Nguyen’s lack of cooperation with police and his lies weren’t mine, they were those of a Singaporean official. As I stated. Hope you’ve felt the same about the hundreds more who’ve died before your fellow Australian, and about those who will die after him. You should, you know, as you’re saying “Fuck you, Singapore” so vociferously. Join up with Amnesty Internaternational. I’m sure they’ll give you all the info you need to continue this very worthy fight for human rights. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/156 "2005-11-29T11:27:00Z")
**Kambuckta** , you will find this an interesting [read](http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1894002,00.html) ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/157 "2005-11-29T11:33:17Z")
> [@mks57](#): > > Why should he get special treatment? I’m tired of this attitude that foreigners, often stupid young adults, should get more lenient treatment than locals convicted of the same crime. It reeks of colonialism. Well, IMO the locals should get the same leniency. Mandatory death sentencing sucks dog’s balls regardless of the nationality of the criminal. Of course, it only comes to our attention when one of our nationals is sentenced. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/158 "2005-11-29T12:14:49Z")
Supposedly they have death sentence as a way to scare off drug traffickers from using Singapore as a drug hub – and with all the extra crime and corruption that always follow the drug trade, I don’t see why they should feel obliged to show leniency to those whom insist on endangering their lives. Nobody forced the drug trafficker from entering Singapore. And perhaps making it mandatory might overall actually be the most human thing. If everybody knows that trafficking will get you killed no matter what. Fewer people will do it, and in the end fewer people will get executed or given long term prison terms. Kinda like the apparent suicidal behaviour in chick-run, which is often put forward as an example of a on the surface absurd strategy in game theory, wherein one of the drivers ties himself to the car and extravagantly rips out the steering wheel. The other driver now knows that if he wants to live, he’ll have to swear away. And in the end fewer people gets killed through collision. Singapore by tying their hands signal that if you want to live you don’t take drugs to Singapore. And fewer people may get harmed. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/159 "2005-11-29T13:35:50Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Execute Truong Van Nguyen? Just try it. See what happens then fuckers. Not that I disagree with your opinion, but what do you think will happen? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/160 "2005-11-29T14:34:08Z")
> [@Grelby](#): > > Fuck you. This kind of attitude - reducing others to being less than people - is the attitude that leads to slavery, terrorism, war, race hate and a host of other evils. I’m not saying that drug dealers are good. Drug dealing is bad. That doesn’t mean that they are less than human. Jesus, are you even following along? The kid is not a drug dealer, he is a transporter. They are NOT the same thing. > > …snip… > This kid did something really fucking stupid. It’s his own goddamned fault, and he put himself in that situation. What he was doing, in addition to being stupid, was wrong. But then, I do the wrong thing too, sometimes. > > This kid does not deserve to die. Like hell he doesn’t. He **chose** , freely and voluntarily, to deal drugs in a country that very, very clearly says you will get the death penalty for doing so. He deserves it based on his actions. That’s not dehumanizing anyone, that is recognizing that actions have consequences. That appears to be a concept you have difficulty comprehending. BTW, that moronic nitpicking about him being a transporter is about as stupid as you can get; that’s like saying the guy who drives the getaway car isn’t really responsible for the bank robbery itself. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/161 "2005-11-29T14:38:17Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > You’re an idiot and beneath my contempt. So this is the last time I’ll respond to you. Oh, ghods, **Atticus** - how will I ever survive without your responses? Someday - maybe - you will learn that when you resort to ad hominem attacks like that, you are really admitting openly that you have no way to refute what was said originally. Your response, therefore, is quite similar to a 4 year old sticking his fingers in his ears and screaming, “LALALALALAI’MNOTLISTENINGTOYOU!!”. :wally ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/162 "2005-11-29T14:44:09Z")
> [@Grelby](#): > > Actually, let me make this abundantly clear: “fuck you” does not even begin to describe my feelings about your attitude, **Clothahump**. To say “I am not rejoicing in the death of another human being,” is simply so unmitigatedly **evil** and despicable that I am a loss for words strong enough to condemn you for it. Suffice it for me to say that you are a horrifyingly frightening and sick person, and that I am grateful beyond words that the majority of people do not seem to share your disgusting opinions. > > Yes, I am that disturbed. Well, let me make this abundantly clear: I don’t care. Amigo, I have cleaned up the results of drugs for way too many years of my life. I don’t think you would have any problem with the death penalty for someone who kidnapped, repeatedly raped and tortured and then killed a young child, would you? I sure don’t, and I think people who traffic in drugs are lower than that. Their victims and the families of the victims continue to suffer; in fact, the dealer’s entire existance is predicated on that suffering. And yet you claim that _I_ am “a horrifyingly frightening and sick person”, while showing sympathy to a drug dealer. What a twisted, perverted world you live in. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2005, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400/163 "2005-11-29T14:58:35Z")
> [@neutron star](#): > > Indeed, the vast majority of dealers have never hurt a fly. If they did, the murder rate would be a hundred times what it is now. You know, I would laugh at that if it weren’t so fucking pathetic. Stop and think about what you posted. Let’s look at it up close: the vast majority of dealers have never hurt a fly. Your ignorance is astounding, amigo. Look at it again: the vast majority of dealers have never hurt a fly. They are drug dealers, dammit! Their entire existance is built around hurting others! I repeat: your ignorance is astounding. From posts like yours and **Grelby’s** and **Atticus Finch’s** , I can see clearly why Cecil says that it’s taking longer than we thought. You clowns sit around all self-righteous and smug and bitch at me because I live in the real world, and you haven’t got fucking clue one about it. And you all claim you’re disgusted by me because of that. I’d give you a wally, but frankly a wally doesn’t convey the contempt that I feel. Feel free to flame away, but understand that by doing so, you’re simply arguing my case for me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-death-sentences-fuck-off-singapore/332400.md?page=9)