A question for those of you who are pointing out that Singapore publishes their policy widely:
Assume that this young man’s family states publically that they will retaliate with terrorist attacks on Singapore’s law enforcement and governemnt if he is executed. Assuming that they do so, are the deaths of their victims their own fault, on the grounds that they were warned about the possible consequences of supporting Singapore?
‘Of course not’, I would expect to hear. ‘Van Nguyen’s family has no moral authority to kill government workers and law enforcement officers, especially as the vast majority of them are not directly responsible for their son’s death.’
I claim that these exact same arguments can be made against Singapore’s actions. Drug dealing does not necessarily produce the horrible consequences that those of us in the U.S.A. have seen, as various European nations have shown. Singapore cannot claim that drug dealing leads inexorably to violence and corruption. As for the second question: if drug dealing is not intrinisically evil, then it’s damn stupid to kill people for it.
I don’t have any pity for this fellow’s fate. Singapore is a wonderful country state, and its general population APPRECIATES the zero-tolerance criminal politicies which exist there because they ALL know it’s to protect their social well being… they love and in fact, worship their country and all that it represents. If someone is going to take such ridiculous risks with their life (transporting drugs/drug dealing) through a country such as Singapore and get caught, then he/she must pay the piper.
I realize you’re upset but this kind of statement just makes you look irrational and ridiculous.
Whether we like it or not, other countries are autonomous and free to make their own laws, complete with punishments which we deem to be barbaric and unfair. It’s for that very reason that I wouldn’t ever consider marrying an Iraqi or Iranian man, let alone have children with him. Yet from time to time I’ll read about some poor distraught woman who is desperately appealing to the United States government to rescue her children from these countries. Either she entered her husband’s home country voluntarily or he kidnapped the kids and brought them there without her consent. Once in that country, his rights completely trump hers and she is powerless.
Does it suck? Absolutely. Is it fair? NO. Does her government have any authority to change it? NO.
IMO, one combats these unjustices by avoiding these countries like the plague. Before you marry a man who hails from a country where you will have zero legal rights, think long and hard about what you are doing. Before you deal drugs in a country where the punishment is to hang until dead, think long and hard about it.
No matter what you decide, at the very least acknowledge that your government, family, and church have no power to change things.
The difference between Singapore and Iraq is that at least Iraq has never tried to pretend it is anything it’s not. Singapore’s the theme park happy happy joy joy city where nothing bad ever happens. It’s also the place where Australian reporters have found that members of the public they’ve interviewed for their opinions on this have, if they’re opposed to the hanging, invariably wanted to give a false name. I can’t see that happening in your average man-in-the-street interview in Sydney or Los Angeles. The “interviewee asked to simply be known as Wendy” is usually reserved for people scared of The Mob or such, but not for an average citizen wanting to disagree with the government - unless you’re in Singapore, it seems. Doesn’t seem like a particularly healthy society to me.
Your latest post gave me a good ROFLMAO!!! The best 200 calories burned yet!!! Too bad the absurdity of it just shoots your rant down to pitiful blathering.
Singapore is beautiful, clean, disease free, about-as-crime-free as you can imagine, everyone strives for excellence, AND people do have legal rights… it truly is a Paradise
Actually, their entire existence is built around the sale of potentially harmful products for which there is a lot of demand.
Eh, I might flame you, but really, it’s not worth it. You seem to have been getting dumber and dumber with each post you’ve made on the SDMB recently, but you have yet to reach the so-stupid-that-I-can’t-stop-laughing point, so the whole thing really seems pointless.
I do wonder, though, how me flaming you would serve as an argument for your case. As I said quite truthfully earlier in the thread, I am not, and have never been, a dealer.
This is a very simplistic view of the world. Your posts are evidence that you are do not think deeply about issues such as these. It also shows that you are not only ignorant, but continue to ignore information that has been presented to you.
I am sorry to hear that drug abuse has so badly affected your life, but you have to keep in mind it is not the drugs per se, but the societal context that leads to harm.
Also remember that this thread is about the barbarity of a mandatory death penalty, not whether or not drugs are bad.
No, I have been around plenty of drug dealers too. Hard drugs, some even moreso than alcohol, can wreck a life, destroy finances, tear families apart, lead to health problems, and kill through overdose, bodily degeneration, or drug induced suicides and behaviors.
That is the sad fact about man versus substance when it becomes an addition. That is a physiological reality and not something you can wish away.
Hard drug dealers sell addiction and increasing misery to people that never would have believed they would get hooked on it. That is where the money is for them and they know a certain percentage will eventually get hooked and destroy their lives if they keep bringing it in and using their own brand of marketing enticements. That is what they depend on.
Fuck your “societal context” bullshit and get back to a postmodern literary criticism class where you belong.
Locals don’t get any leniency. Regardless of country, creed or race, you got caught for smuggling drugs in, that’s it. Manyf Singaporeans have been tried, and found guility of smuggling drugs before, and all have been executed. As there are so many of them, I sure each of will have a sad, tragic story why they have landed up in their straits. Absuive parents, hanging out with the wrong gang, gambling debts, pure stupidiness - I sure there’s be one, or two, or even three or more with stories sadder than the one in spotlight.
But that doesn’t help them No preferences were given for a local. How about a foreigner?
Just because it isn’t a problem in USA or other European countries, doesn’t mean that is not a problem for other countries. Why since did USA and other western countries become a yardstick for everything that’s right and proper?
Yes, I know. My point, short that it was, is that judges should have the ability to be lenient toboth local and foreign nationals. This point was in response to someone else saying (paraphrased) “why are you getting upset about the Aussie bloke and not the locals?” The reason we get upset about the Aussie bloke is that there is media coverage of him. This highlights the barbaric sentencing of both foreign and local nationals in Singapore.
I don’t believe that anyone should be killed, ever, in any country, for any reason, unless they choose to be. Obviously this is an ideal that will never come to be.
kidchameleon, I used to be pro mandatory death sentencing. Up until we lost the “Death Ray” contract. Apparently the results from the “ray” were not terminal enough, even when the settings were increased fully clockwise to REALLY REALLY FATAL (NOT RECOMMENDED).
I wish there were more women with your attitude. There are a hell of a lot of women in Saudi from the US or the UK wandering around moaning about how "Abdullah or Mohammed was so different when she met him in her country. Now she’s being forced to attend classes on her new religion, forced to wear a black sack whenever she gets out and mostly just forced to remain at home. Hubby has her passport and she couldn’t leave anyway as she has no money and can’t get through the immigration check without her husbands consent.
Singapore has denied an Australian government request that Nguyen’s mother be allowed to embrace him once before he dies.
Okay, so he’s going to die. All avenues of appeal have been exhausted.
Though I really do see nothing wrong with letting the mother see Nugyen for one last time. But I guess the authority really want to stick to the ‘no exception’ cause.
You couldn’t convince me to go to Singapore. Especially not now. I’d rather eat pine cones in a forest shack then surrender my individual freedom to blog about how much the government sucks.
I know people love to claim that it’s a paradise, but I think the price is way too high to consider even visiting. No thanks.
Too bad the absurdity of it just shoots your rant down to pitiful blathering.
