# Mandatory High-Efficiency but Toxic Lightbulbs ?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [April 30, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194 "2007-04-30T18:22:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Omoikane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omoikane)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/1 "2007-04-30T18:22:13Z")
According to this article:
[http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda](http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=aa7796aa-e4a5-4c06-be84-b62dee548fda)
the new compact fluorescent light bulbs that are being touted by the Canadian Government and Wal-Mart, amongst others, contain levels of mercury that require a toxic-contaminant clean-up if any of them are broken.
> [@](#):
>
> According to an April 12 article in The Ellsworth American, Bridges had the misfortune of breaking a CFL during installation in her daughter’s bedroom: It dropped and shattered on the carpeted floor.
>
> Aware that CFLs contain potentially hazardous substances, Bridges called her local Home Depot for advice. The store told her that the CFL contained mercury and that she should call the Poison Control hotline, which in turn directed her to the Maine Department of Environmental Protection.
>
> The DEP sent a specialist to Bridges’ house to test for mercury contamination. The specialist found mercury levels in the bedroom in excess of six times the state’s “safe” level for mercury contamination of 300 billionths of a gram per cubic meter. The DEP specialist recommended that Bridges call an environmental cleanup firm, which reportedly gave her a “low-ball” estimate of US$2,000 to clean up the room. The room then was sealed off with plastic and Bridges began “gathering finances” to pay for the US$2,000 cleaning. Reportedly, her insurance company wouldn’t cover the cleanup costs because mercury is a pollutant.
Moreover, they are very difficult to dispose of properly after they’ve been used because:
> [@](#):
>
> each CFL contains five milligrams of mercury, at the Maine “safety” standard of 300 nanograms per cubic meter, it would take 16,667 cubic meters of soil to “safely” contain all the mercury in a single CFL.
Is this true? Is something being misrepresented here? Why does no one know about this?
---
### Author:  [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/2 "2007-04-30T18:45:50Z")
Wow, that is an eye opener. I hope that there isn’t that much mercury in the lights that trying to solve one problem exacerbates another.
---
### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/3 "2007-04-30T18:58:00Z")
CFLs do contain mercury, but it’s a very small amount of mercury. However, that article reads a lot like the typical alarmist overexaggeration that runs rampant through so called “news” outlets these days.
GE has this to say about CFLs:
> [@](#):
>
> What should I do if a CFL breaks?
> Because there is such a small amount of mercury in CFLs, your greatest risk if a bulb breaks is getting cut from glass shards. Research indicates that there is no immediate health risk to you or your family should a bulb break and it’s cleaned up properly. You can minimize any risks by following these proper clean-up and disposal guidelines:
>
> ```
> * Sweep up—don't vacuum—all of the glass fragments and fine particles.
> * Place broken pieces in a sealed plastic bag and wipe the area with a damp paper towel to pick up any stray shards of glass or fine particles. Put the used towel in the plastic bag as well.
> * If weather permits, open windows to allow the room to ventilate.
>
> ```
(from here: [Lighting FAQ | CYNC](http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/faq_compact.htm) )
The above quoted text appears word for word on numerous other web sites, including some government sites like [seattle.gov](http://seattle.gov). I start to get a little worried when you see the exact same text on different sites. Kinda smells like a conspiracy. Conspiracy theories aside, the text seems to derive from the Environmental Protection Agency’s fact sheet on CFLs: (warning - PDF)
[http://www.gelighting.com/na/home\_lighting/ask\_us/downloads/MercuryInCFLs.pdf](http://www.gelighting.com/na/home_lighting/ask_us/downloads/MercuryInCFLs.pdf)
The EPA seems to place CFLs in the same danger catagory as batteries, paint, and motor oil. Make of that what you will.
---
### Author:  [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/4 "2007-04-30T19:09:39Z")
By the way, Maine’s department of environmental protection (the guys that supposedly sealed off the room in the OP and recommended $2k cleanup) released this flyer: (warning, pdf)
[http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/hazardouswaste/pdf/lamp\_flyer.pdf](http://www.maine.gov/dep/rwm/hazardouswaste/pdf/lamp_flyer.pdf)
This flyer recommends the use of CFLs but does emphasize that they should be disposed of properly.
From the flyer:
> [@](#):
>
> Fluorescent bulbs are 75% more efficient than incandescent bulbs and last 5-10 times longer. Using them will help lower your electric bill!
> [@](#):
>
> Households must also comply with mercury lamp recycling require-ments. Contact your local municipal solid waste facility to find out whether it will accept mercury lamps for recycling.
This flyer seems to contradict the OP article’s depiction of Maine’s DEP, which in the article seems to treat a single broken bulb as if it were a chunk of waste from a nuclear reactor.
---
### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/5 "2007-04-30T19:10:07Z")
There was another recent thread where we figured out that incandescent use releases more mercury into the air (at the power plant generating more electricity to run it) where a CFL locks a much smaller amount in a safe glass tube, which is then - realistically, I mean, assuming people don’t recycle them properly - locked into a landfill or released into earth or water - both safer places for mercury to be than in the air. Can anyone find it? I know I posted to it, but Search doesn’t like me right now.
So yes, it’s true, but it’s not worrisome, in other words. Remember, teachers used to let kids play with handfuls of mercury in chem class. I’m not saying we should be so blasé as that, but a few mLs on your kid’s floor are hardly worth getting into a tizzy about.
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/6 "2007-04-30T19:20:12Z")
FWIW when he was little my son had a mercury thermometer break in his mouth. Knowing that mercury is a big time hazard, I grabbed the phone and called poison control. Their reply? Don’t sweat it.
:dubious:
I called a second poison control center and got the same reply.
YMMV.
I would not sweat 5 milligrams after that.
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/7 "2007-04-30T19:24:57Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
but a few mLs on your kid’s floor…
[/QUOTE]
A typical CFL contains about [0.3 microliters of mercury](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=8324683&highlight=mercury#post8324683)
For milliliters, you’d have to bust an old thermostat switch.
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### Author:  [@Jelymag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jelymag)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/8 "2007-04-30T19:30:21Z")
They can’t be more of a potential hazard than mercury thermometers, which were **designed to be inserted into orifices of small children…**
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### Author:  [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/9 "2007-04-30T20:32:03Z")
[QUOTE=Jelymag]
They can’t be more of a potential hazard than mercury thermometers, which were **designed to be inserted into orifices of small children…**
[/QUOTE]
See post #6 as to what happens when that goes south. :eek:
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### Author:  [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/10 "2007-04-30T21:27:04Z")
When I was in grade seven, the science teacher opened a pound\* bottle of mercury and showed us how strange and interesting and beautiful it was. We ended up chasing small amounts around the table to get them back in the bottle.
I’m still here, and there’s nothing physically wrong with me. _twitch_
[sub]\*Yes, a pound bottle, in those just barely pre-metric days. It wasn’t a very large bottle, either. But man, was it heavy for its size![/sub]
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### Author:  [@Canadjun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Canadjun)
#### Post date: [April 30, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/11 "2007-04-30T23:53:56Z")
I played with mercury several times as a kid, including rolling a significant quantity around on the palms of my hands (fun stuff to play with). I seem to have survived OK.
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### Author:  [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2007, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/12 "2007-05-01T07:21:47Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
There was another recent thread where we figured out that incandescent use releases more mercury into the air (at the power plant generating more electricity to run it) where a CFL locks a much smaller amount in a safe glass tube, which is then - realistically, I mean, assuming people don’t recycle them properly - locked into a landfill or released into earth or water - both safer places for mercury to be than in the air. Can anyone find it? I know I posted to it, but Search doesn’t like me right now.
So yes, it’s true, but it’s not worrisome, in other words. Remember, teachers used to let kids play with handfuls of mercury in chem class. I’m not saying we should be so blasé as that, but a few mLs on your kid’s floor are hardly worth getting into a tizzy about.
[/QUOTE]
The power plant need not release **any** mercury, which makes thje argument spurious.
While I too played with mercury as a kid, Victorian hatters went mad because of mercury and I remember an episode of Colombo where mercury vapour was used to drive people nuts and to suicide.
We could find that this becomes a problem, like lead in petrol and CFCs …
In fact it has already been a problem
> **[Minamata disease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease)**
>
> Minamata disease (Japanese: 水俣病, Hepburn: Minamata-byō) is a neurological disease caused by severe mercury poisoning. Symptoms include ataxia, numbness in the hands and feet, general muscle weakness, loss of peripheral vision, and damage to hearing and speech. In extreme cases, insanity, paralysis, coma, and death follow within weeks of the onset of symptoms. A form of the disease in babies, with microcephaly, extensive cerebral damage, and symptoms similar to those seen in cerebral palsy also oc...
---
### Author:  [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2007, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/13 "2007-05-01T11:17:50Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace]
When I was in grade seven, the science teacher opened a pound\* bottle of mercury and showed us how strange and interesting and beautiful it was. We ended up chasing small amounts around the table to get them back in the bottle.
I’m still here, and there’s nothing physically wrong with me. _twitch_
[sub]\*Yes, a pound bottle, in those just barely pre-metric days. It wasn’t a very large bottle, either. But man, was it heavy for its size![/sub]
[/QUOTE]
I wonder if you were in my class because the same thing happened to me. He left the bottle unattended in a cupboard and a bunch of us got to it. One kid put some in his mouth.
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### Author:  [@solkoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solkoe)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2007, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/14 "2007-05-01T11:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE]
The power plant need not release **any** mercury, which makes thje argument spurious.
While I too played with mercury as a kid, Victorian hatters went mad because of mercury and I remember an episode of Colombo where mercury vapour was used to drive people nuts and to suicide.
We could find that this becomes a problem, like lead in petrol and CFCs …
In fact it has already been a problem
> **[Minamata disease](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease)**
>
> Minamata disease (Japanese: 水俣病, Hepburn: Minamata-byō) is a neurological disease caused by severe mercury poisoning. Symptoms include ataxia, numbness in the hands and feet, general muscle weakness, loss of peripheral vision, and damage to hearing and speech. In extreme cases, insanity, paralysis, coma, and death follow within weeks of the onset of symptoms. A form of the disease in babies, with microcephaly, extensive cerebral damage, and symptoms similar to those seen in cerebral palsy also oc...
[/QUOTE]
Minimata was a serious disaster but has nothing to do with mercury in CFL’s.
It’s true that we can generate electricity without burning anything. In Ontario, our energy production is 1/3 fossil fuel, 1/3 nuclear, 1/3 hydroelectric. Our 20 year goal is to reduce our reliance on fossil fuel and increase nuclear production to 50%. Now we can start a whole new thread on the threats of nuclear waste. Every form of electrical production has drawbacks.
From what I understand (no cite) the fastest growing source of electrical production is the burning of coal which **would** release mercury into the air.
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2007, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/15 "2007-05-01T12:42:37Z")
Oh, that explains _that._ The news story is being quoted in the _National Post_. They’re the ones who called people protesting the Republican National Convention faggots outside of quotation marks on the first page. They also completely manufactured a month’s worth of stories about the supposed overwhelming desire of Canadians to join the United States, which nobody outside their editorial board was even remotely interested in. They just make shit up. Forget about them.
---
### Author:  [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/16 "2007-05-01T15:35:50Z")
[QUOTE=FRDE]
The power plant need not release **any** mercury, which makes thje argument spurious.
[/quote]
Need not or does not? While I’m on board with increasing nuclear power plants (I assume that’s what you’re referring to) the simple fact is that coal is more culturally acceptable and that’s what’s mostly used, and that does release mercury, does it not? As such, I feel like we need to choose the least bad of what we’ve got, while working for better options in the future. At the moment, that’s using CFL’s and working for nuclear, wind or solar power. It’s better than using incandescents and working for nuclear, wind or solar power, or using incandescents and doing nothing about the source of the power.
> [@](#):
>
> While I too played with mercury as a kid, Victorian hatters went mad because of mercury and I remember an episode of Colombo where mercury vapour was used to drive people nuts and to suicide.
Oh, well if it was on _Colombo_… 😃 Look, I’m not arguing that mercury is harmless. I’m arguing that mercury in a little glass tube is harmless, and that the chances of breakage and the level of exposure should breakage occur is not anything to freak out about. I’m 32 years old, and I’ve NEVER had a light bulb - incandescent or CFL, break on me. Not a single one. While I’m prepared to believe that I’m lucky, I just don’t believe that there are houses with dozens of CFLs breaking a month, which is where we’d need to be before an environmental hazard was realistically present. They just aren’t a hazard, especially if they are recycled properly - a point which I admit has been very poorly advertised to the general public. Yes, we need to increase awareness that tossing your used CFL in the trash is not the best way to get rid of it.
> [@](#):
>
> We could find that this becomes a problem, like lead in petrol and CFCs …
> In fact it has already been a problem
> [Minamata disease - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease)
Again, in much greater doses than the mercury in a CFL. I agree with you that environmental mercury is a concern. That’s why I want to work to reduce the level of environmental mercury, which using CFL’s does. For now. Meanwhile, we need to work to get people to accept a cleaner source of making electricity at the same time. When LED’s become financially practical, I’ll be urging people to use those. This is not about waiting until the perfect solution comes along, it’s about making increasingly better choices as they become available, even if those intermediary steps have some drawbacks.
---
### Author:  [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/17 "2007-05-02T08:07:04Z")
[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Need not or does not? While I’m on board with increasing nuclear power plants (I assume that’s what you’re referring to) **the simple fact is that coal is more culturally acceptable and that’s what’s mostly used, and that does release mercury, does it not?** As such, I feel like we need to choose the least bad of what we’ve got, while working for better options in the future. At the moment, that’s using CFL’s and working for nuclear, wind or solar power. It’s better than using incandescents and working for nuclear, wind or solar power, or using incandescents and doing nothing about the source of the power.
[/quote]
My point is that the waste from coal burning power stations can, and should, be filtered to remove **all** mercury.
I’m all for LEDs and a bit nervous of nuclear.
Hopefully those mercury bulbs will not be around too long.
---
### Author:  [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/18 "2007-05-02T13:49:52Z")
Snopes is one step shy of calling the story in the OP a myth. They state that they don’t know what transpired for sure, but that the people cited are real. The writer for Snopes also implies that the story is being used by right-leaning news outlets to point out perceived flaws in the plan to get rid of incandescents. There is some well-supported information on how to deal with a broken CFL, none of which involves a HAZMAT team.
Here’s the relevant article from [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp).
---
### Author:  [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/19 "2007-05-02T15:39:17Z")
[QUOTE=Jurph]
There is some well-supported information on how to deal with a broken CFL, none of which involves a HAZMAT team.
Here’s the relevant article from [Snopes](http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/cfl.asp).
[/QUOTE]
And here’s the EPA’s recommendation on how to deal with a broken CFL:
> **[Lamp Recycle – Environmental Responsiblility Starts Here](https://lamprecycle.org/en/)**
> [@U.S. EPA](#):
>
> Safe cleanup precautions: If a CFL breaks in your home, open nearby windows to disperse any vapor that may
> escape, carefully sweep up the fragments (do not use your hands) and wipe the area with a disposable paper towel to
> remove all glass fragments. Do not use a vacuum. Place all fragments in a sealed plastic bag and follow disposal
> instructions above.
The “instructions above” are:
> [@](#):
>
> Always Dispose of Your CFL Properly
> While CFLs for your home are not legally considered hazardous waste
> according to federal solid waste rules, it is still best for the environment to
> dispose of your CFL properly upon burnout. Only large commercial users of
> tubular fluorescent lamps are required to recycle. If recycling is not an
> option in your area (see below on how to find out), place the CFL in a
> sealed plastic bag and dispose the same way you would batteries, oil-based
> paint and motor oil at your local Household Hazardous Waste (HHW)
> Collection Site. If your local HHW Collection Site cannot accept CFLs
> (check [Earth911.org](http://Earth911.org) to find out), seal the CFL in a plastic bag and place
> with your regular trash.
It doesn’t seem like that big a deal.
---
### Author:  [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)
#### Post date: [May 2, 2007, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-high-efficiency-but-toxic-lightbulbs/402194/20 "2007-05-02T15:46:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> What should I do if a CFL breaks?
> Because there is such a small amount of mercury in CFLs, your greatest risk if a bulb breaks is getting cut from glass shards. Research indicates that there is no immediate health risk to you or your family should a bulb break and it’s cleaned up properly. You can minimize any risks by following these proper clean-up and disposal guidelines:
> • Sweep up—don’t vacuum—all of the glass fragments and fine particles.
> • Place broken pieces in a sealed plastic bag and wipe the area with a damp paper towel to pick up any stray shards of glass or fine particles. Put the used towel in the plastic bag as well.
> • If weather permits, open windows to allow the room to ventilate.
The suggestion about cleaning up the spill sounds great as long as it happens on tile or hardwood. What if it happens on carpet? I accidentally dropped an incandescent bulb from a ceiling fixture, it hit the chair I was standing on and shattered, sending pieces across my bedroom carpet. In that case I was just able to grab the Hoover and suck it up. WTF do I do if I did the same thing with a CFL? I realize everyone is saying that the quantity is small but I would prefer to avoid making a bad situation worse. How screwed would I be if I just used the vacuum? Would it aerosolize the mercury? IANAD and IANAChemist so I’m getting confused about how the amount of liquid mercury would convert to mercury vapor in an enclosed room and what the risks are.
OK, call me paranoid. I took the CFL bulb out of my daughter’s bedside lamp and am considering removing them from our table lamps. We’ve had lamps knocked over by kids and dogs. I don’t want my blood to look like it came from the [T-1000](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-1000) Please reassure me.
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