# mandatory voting in USA (ed. title) **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438 "2006-11-07T16:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/41 "2006-11-07T22:07:17Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Australians do have Christians and Jews, however. [/QUOTE] Right – there are a lot of Australians who treat Saturday as the Sabbath, including Jews and Seventh Day Adventists. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/42 "2006-11-07T22:43:00Z")
[QUOTE=Giles] Right – there are a lot of Australians who treat Saturday as the Sabbath, including Jews and Seventh Day Adventists. [/QUOTE] Who can all easily pre-poll/postal vote if they wish to avoid voting on the Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/43 "2006-11-07T23:48:44Z")
An option might be to vote for" none of the above". We should have that box available. Write ins are very difficult in our locale. There should be a blank spot and a pen . ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/44 "2006-11-07T23:54:27Z")
For information, the Australian Electoral Commission summarises the arguments for and against compulsory voting [here:](http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/What/voting/compulsory_voting.htm) **For** > [@](#): > > - Voting is a civic duty comparable to other duties citizens perform eg taxation, compulsory education, jury duty > - Teaches the benefits of political participation > - Parliament reflects more accurately the “will of the electorate” > - Governments must consider the total electorate in policy formulation and management > - Candidates can concentrate their campaigning energies on issues rather than encouraging voters to attend the poll > - The voter isn’t actually compelled to vote for anyone because voting is by secret ballot. **Against** > [@](#): > > - It is undemocratic to force people to vote - an infringement of liberty > - The ill informed and those with little interest in politics are forced to the polls > - It may increase the number of “donkey votes” > - It may increase the number of informal votes > - It increases the number of safe, single-member electorates - political parties then concentrate on the more marginal electorates > - Resources must be allocated to determine whether those who failed to vote have “valid and sufficient” reasons. NB “Donkey votes” are those where the voter simply numbers his preferences 1, 2, 3…down the list of candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/45 "2006-11-08T01:17:54Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] An option might be to vote for" none of the above". We should have that box available. [/QUOTE] I have said for years that this needs to be an option. If “none of the above” wins, they either have to re-do the election with different candidates, or the position is eliminated from government. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2006, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/46 "2006-11-08T01:20:48Z")
Yup, time to come in and do damage control. Dad, apparently, types with his forhead. I know this because I hear the loud “clang! clang!” when the keyboard tray snaps back up against the underside of the desk. In any case, I don’t think voting should be mandatory. I’d like to see people vote, and I think that, in order to keep our status as “democracy”, we need to get more people voting, but if people don’t care, they don’t care. You can’t make people care and you can’t bribe them to care. What’s the answer? FuckifIknow. Any big, fun fix would require an outpouring of voters that are fed up. It hasn’t happened for a while and it won’t happen in this current political climate. …maybe I should introduce dad to The Google spellchecker… ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/47 "2006-11-09T17:01:40Z")
I think the rest of the America should adopt Oregon’s method. First off, we have “motor voter” which means you’re automatically registered when you get your driver’s license or ID card, and the information is updated if you change your address or something–no need to separately reregister to vote if you move. We can also register to vote right up to the deadline, which is something like a week before the elections. Ballots are mailed out to every registered voter, and can be mailed or dropped off at the library, post office or one of bazillions of other spots. If you don’t trust the mail or drop off, you can go to your polling place on election day and stand in line–your choice. We also have a nifty law that says any measure that requires a tax hike or (I believe) changes the state constitution automatically fails if fewer than 50% of registered voters actually cast a ballot. Therefore, if you’re apathetic about everything BUT a tax hike bill, just don’t vote and it means you’ve voted against. We have a paper trail, documented proof of our ballots and it works really well–so many people turn in their ballots ahead of time it makes the count go pretty fast… We don’t get “Diebold victories” here! I tellya what, this is the first election day aftermath in like ten years that I haven’t felt like a multiple anal rape victim–our state measures went well and all the stupid/venal/assholish ones failed resoundingly. It restores my faith in human nature and the goodwill of my neighbors at least a bit. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2006, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/48 "2006-11-09T17:34:56Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] An option might be to vote for" none of the above". We should have that box available. Write ins are very difficult in our locale. There should be a blank spot and a pen . [/QUOTE] A few years ago a California initiative failed trying to insert this option. It was championed by someone who managed (or maybe it was almost managed) to get her dog on a local ballot race. It failed due to a significant dual effort from the two major parties. ---
**Author:** ![rocksolid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@rocksolid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocksolid)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/49 "2006-11-13T23:12:33Z")
[QUOTE=Thudlow Boink] Hell, no. If people are uninformed, ignorant, or apathetic, I don’t want them voting. [/QUOTE] And that i think is the crux of the matter. Why the hell force people to vote when they have no understanding of what they are voting for? I’d hazard a guess that the vast (and i mean absolutely vast) majority of people that do vote don’t have the first idea how their votes will actually impact their nation, state or whatever. Why add even more? I believe in democracy 100% (or maybe not at all, who knows) but i firmly believe that having uneducated idiots (by that i mean in the subject area, not that every voter is actually stupid) make decisions on who is best suited to make their decisions for them is utter bollocks. Doesn’t it mostly boil down to who has had the best marketing campaign? What good would more voters do? It’s a lottery anyway so why would more voters make any difference? **Rather than enforce mandatory voting, i’d go for the opposite. Stop people voting unless they can prove they actually understand enough to have a right to vote** \* rs \*been reading a lot of talk about trolls on SDMB recently, hope the fact that this may be a controversial statement isn’t taken as inflammatory just for the hell of it. I’m no troll; i’d really like a reasoned debate about this point, if anyone is interested maybe start a new thread? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/50 "2006-11-13T23:27:14Z")
When voters are spurred to vote on the basis of a single issue, they are bad voters. But vote they do. Groups will get more power and claim than their positions actually merit. They become big fish in an incomplete pool. I think if 35 other countries have gone that way,suggests we should carefully see if the results can be fathomed. Does it just make a bigger pool with essentially the same results or does it impact the election. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/51 "2006-11-14T00:31:22Z")
I’ve advocated for mandatory voting in other [threads](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=374092). We are not exempt from paying taxes just because we do not like where the money is going, so nor should we be exempt from voting just because we do not like the candidates or issues. I see it as part of being a citizen, and not just a consumer. But I also want to see a mail-in voting system like that enacted in Oregon (described by **SmartAleq** above). The optical/electronic Diebold-type machines are the biggest, needless BS I’ve ever seen. I would rather see this enacted first, since it would probably [increase](http://www.bendbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061017/NEWS0107/610170369/1064/VOTE01&nav_category=VOTE01) voter turnout enough to make elections truly meaningful again and negate the need to make it mandatory. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/52 "2006-11-14T01:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=rocksolid] **Rather than enforce mandatory voting, i’d go for the opposite. Stop people voting unless they can prove they actually understand enough to have a right to vote** \* [/QUOTE] Yeah… I mean, sure voting tests were used to discriminate and disenfranchise people in the past, but now that we’ve evolved past all forms of racial and economic prejudice, there’s no way it would be a problem. > [@Agnostic Pagan](#): > > We are not exempt from paying taxes just because we do not like where the money is going, so nor should we be exempt from voting just because we do not like the candidates or issues. I see it as part of being a citizen, and not just a consumer. If we don’t like the candidates or the issues, what purpose does voting serve? ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/53 "2006-11-14T02:13:16Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] If we don’t like the candidates or the issues, what purpose does voting serve? [/QUOTE] I would say that mandatory voting would at least force us to look at the candidates and issue to decide if we do not like them or not, rather than completely ignore them as most non-voters appear to do. I forgot to add above that I support the NOTA ideas presented also, or ballots must have some minimum number of votes cast on it to be valid, i.e. vote for the local candidates you like and not vote on the national candidates, or vice versa. I dont know of any ballot requirement that says one has to vote for every item listed. **SmartAleq** , do you know the requirements for Oregon? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/54 "2006-11-14T03:20:56Z")
[QUOTE=Agnostic Pagan] I would say that mandatory voting would at least force us to look at the candidates and issue to decide if we do not like them or not, rather than completely ignore them as most non-voters appear to do. [/QUOTE] Well, you said ‘we don’t like the candidates or the issues.’ That implies some level of knowledge. ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2006, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/55 "2006-11-14T22:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] Well, you said ‘we don’t like the candidates or the issues.’ That implies some level of knowledge. [/QUOTE] True, I think I got a bit ahead of myself there. Mea culpa. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/56 "2006-11-15T03:25:56Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] In Australia so I read ,you are exempt from the voting rules if you are 500 miles away fronm the neatest poll. They have 501 parties .People who absolutely do not want to vote go to a shindig 501 miles away.They are clearly making a statement of some kind. [/QUOTE] _Where_ do you read this? I’ve lived and voted here all my life and never heard of this exemption. No-one has to actually vote here. What is compulsory is turning up to a polling place and getting your name crossed off, or submitting a postal vote. You can leave the ballot blank if you like, no-one will know. ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/57 "2006-11-15T17:30:01Z")
[QUOTE=Agnostic Pagan] I would say that mandatory voting would at least force us to look at the candidates and issue to decide if we do not like them or not, rather than completely ignore them as most non-voters appear to do. [/QUOTE] I disagree. Mandatory voting will force people to show up to vote when they haven’t considered the candidates or issues at all. You can force someone to cast a vote, but you can’t force them to be informed about it. I’m all for making it easier for people to vote and easier for people to find out where candidates stand on issues. I do not want people casting uninformed votes just because they’re told they must vote. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/58 "2006-11-15T17:40:05Z")
But ,wouldn’t it wind up being a better representation of the country. They are out there. To,be ignored if not active. Is that fair? ---
**Author:** ![Agnostic\_Pagan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c4cdca/32.png) [@Agnostic\_Pagan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agnostic_Pagan)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/59 "2006-11-16T00:49:39Z")
[QUOTE=mrklutz] I do not want people casting uninformed votes just because they’re told they must vote. [/QUOTE] I cannot determine any method that would allow anyone to figure out if a vote is informed or uninformed under the current system. I do not how one would be able to determine if the percentage would increase under a mandatory voting system, or by how much, but I honestly think that most citizens would decide to become informed voters if they were required to vote, rather than just draw names out of a hat. On that note though, I thought I would start on [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=7968570#post7968570) on elections were the electorate definitely did not understand the issues under consideration. If there are enough data points, I may have to reconsider my position. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438/60 "2006-11-16T00:54:06Z")
[QUOTE=Agnostic Pagan] but I honestly think that most citizens would decide to become informed voters if they were required to vote, rather than just draw names out of a hat. [/QUOTE] I think you underestimate the laziness of the average person. Which is easier: looking at the candidates and figuring out which ones you like, or just picking them randomly/by party? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting-in-usa-ed-title/379438.md?page=4)