# Mandatory Voting.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [November 7, 2012, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189 "2012-11-07T09:09:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/101 "2012-11-23T05:01:09Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> It would work on some people. But it certainly won’t make it “seem worth the effort to go out and vote”.
Picture this: It’s election day. It’s a bit overcast, and you’ve been wondering all morning if it’s going to rain. You’re sitting on the couch in your pjs watching old movies. You’ve had a long week and you don’t really feel like getting dressed, much less going out… But there’s a fine if you don’t vote so, as unappealing as it is, you decide to drag yourself down to the polling booth and get your name marked off the list. \<– That’s what I mean by “make it seem worth the effort to go out and vote”. It’s similar in principle to those shopping trollies (carts) you have to put a coin in to use (with the exception that kids and tweens can’t do it for you to collect the money). Still, there are grown adults who will cross the parking lot to get their 25 cents back who would otherwise have dumped the trolley on the curb and left. Those are the people who will vote to avoid the fine even if it is a minor inconvenience to do so.
---
### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/102 "2012-11-23T05:10:35Z")
> [@Eliahna](#):
>
> Picture this: It’s election day. It’s a bit overcast, and you’ve been wondering all morning if it’s going to rain. You’re sitting on the couch in your pjs watching old movies. You’ve had a long week and you don’t really feel like getting dressed, much less going out… But there’s a fine if you don’t vote so, as unappealing as it is, you decide to drag yourself down to the polling booth and get your name marked off the list. \<– That’s what I mean by “make it seem worth the effort to go out and vote”. It’s similar in principle to those shopping trollies (carts) you have to put a coin in to use (with the exception that kids and tweens can’t do it for you to collect the money). Still, there are grown adults who will cross the parking lot to get their 25 cents back who would otherwise have dumped the trolley on the curb and left. Those are the people who will vote to avoid the fine even if it is a minor inconvenience to do so.
And my reluctant (and most probably “Micky Mouse” written in) vote is worth taking away everyone’s voting rights?
---
### Author:  [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/103 "2012-11-23T06:20:09Z")
It’s bad enough the uniformed voluntarily vote. Why would we want to force people to vote who have no idea what’s going on?
Or, a wild and hypothetical question, why should we be forced to vote for either Kodos or Kang?
Vote! It’s so great, we have to force you to do it.
---
### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/104 "2012-11-23T06:57:48Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#):
>
> …
> Or, a wild and hypothetical question, why should we be forced to vote for either Kodos or Kang?..
Hence the idea that “none of the above” actually counts as a vote for no one. Let the presidency sit vacant for a term or two, and maybe we’d see candidates take positions people actually want.
I realize there are constitutional issues with this, but I choose to hand-wave them away for the purposes of this discussion.
---
### Author:  [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/105 "2012-11-23T06:59:46Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> Hence the idea that “none of the above” actually counts as a vote for no one. Let the presidency sit vacant for a term or two, and maybe we’d see candidates take positions people actually want.
You do that, and you won’t need compulsory voting. The turnout will be in the 90s.
---
### Author:  [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/106 "2012-11-23T07:08:59Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> Hence the idea that “none of the above” actually counts as a vote for no one. Let the presidency sit vacant for a term or two, and maybe we’d see candidates take positions people actually want.
>
> I realize there are constitutional issues with this, but I choose to hand-wave them away for the purposes of this discussion.
What percentage of people would have to vote “none of the above” to allow no one candidate to win the presidency?
How would that apply to local legislation?
---
### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/107 "2012-11-23T07:45:06Z")
If “nobody” gets more votes than any living candidates, then the seat goes vacant. So, a plurality.
Local elections, the same thing. Maybe we’d end up giving Libertaria a try (though I doubt it).
---
### Author:  [@Gerald\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gerald_II)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/108 "2012-11-23T08:04:56Z")
Do you think mandatory voting would lead to more people voting “none of the above”?
54% of the population voted in the 2008 election. Did the remaining 46% feel dissatisfied with both candidates or were they more preoccupied with entertainment and material goods?
How would we know that mandatory voting wouldn’t just keep the status quo two party system in place because people just want to make sure they weren’t contributing to an empty presidential seat?
If more people today are dissatisfied with the two party system, or with the main candidates, why don’t they take part in the party primaries, or get more involved with a 3rd party?
---
### Author:  [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)
#### Post date: [November 23, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/109 "2012-11-23T10:46:22Z")
> [@Terr](#):
>
> And my reluctant (and most probably “Micky Mouse” written in) vote is worth taking away everyone’s voting rights?
1. I didn’t assign a value to compulsory voting. I answered the question “What problem is this solving?” with two possible answers.
2. We disagree on what “taking away everyone’s voting rights” means. Living in a country with compulsory voting, I’ve grumbled about it when it has personally inconvenienced me but I don’t really have a problem with it. I wander in, they cross my name off, I post a ballot. My attendence is compulsory, my posting of a ballot is compulsory, but no one can force me to vote. Of course, I’m ok with being stopped without cause for random breathalizers, and taking away people’s guns, and limits on free speech, and lots of other crazy, freedom-impinging ideas because I believe that sometimes some things are more important than symbolic “freedoms”. We’re never going to find a point where we meet in the middle.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [November 24, 2012, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/110 "2012-11-24T01:39:00Z")
> [@Gerald\_II](#):
>
> Do you think mandatory voting would lead to more people voting “none of the above”?
>
> 54% of the population voted in the 2008 election. Did the remaining 46% feel dissatisfied with both candidates or were they more preoccupied with entertainment and material goods?
Just to be clear, if we are discussing the 2008 U.S. election, the turnout was around 62%.
---
### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/111 "2015-03-19T12:50:48Z")
Bumped.
President Obama seems open to mandatory voting: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/index.html)
---
### Author:  [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/112 "2015-03-19T12:53:37Z")
I’m sure this will be received by his opponents with the reasoned and calm debate it deserves.
---
### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/113 "2015-03-19T13:12:51Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> Hence the idea that “none of the above” actually counts as a vote for no one.
One possible approach: the office remains vacant for the time being, but a new election is automatically scheduled for X months later. All parties are free to nominate new candidates, _excluding_ those the people have rejected.
---
### Author:  [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/114 "2015-03-19T13:22:30Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#):
>
> All parties are free to nominate new candidates, _excluding_ those the people have rejected.
Stripping citizens of their political rights for the crime of having lost an election sounds like a bad idea to me. YMMV.
---
### Author:  [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/115 "2015-03-19T13:51:55Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#):
>
> Stripping citizens of their political rights for the crime of having lost an election sounds like a bad idea to me. YMMV.
What political rights? You don’t have a right to win office, and they already exercised their right to run for office.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/116 "2015-03-19T14:33:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#):
>
> Bumped.
>
> President Obama seems open to mandatory voting: [http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/19/politics/obama-mandatory-voting/index.html)
I would hope our Constitutional Scholar in Chief would realize that it would almost certainly be unconstitutional at the federal level. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just thinking out loud and musing on how few people vote. Otherwise, he should issue an executive order and see how that works out for him.
---
### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/117 "2015-03-19T14:42:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I would hope our Constitutional Scholar in Chief would realize that it would almost certainly be unconstitutional at the federal level. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt that he was just thinking out loud and musing on how few people vote. Otherwise, he should issue an executive order and see how that works out for him.
Cite? I’ve seen a lot of online discussions of this subject, but I’ve never seen an arguement that it would be unconstitutional, even by opponents.
---
### Author:  [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/118 "2015-03-19T14:59:24Z")
_:shrugs:_
Obama seems to have noticed that his party got trounced recently at least in part because his supporters didn’t vote. So he is floating a trial balloon about forcing people to vote, in hopes that they will be mostly Democrats. It is the flip side of resistance to voter ID.
It won’t go anywhere, nor should it. What are you gonna do, impose another “tax” on not voting like he did with not having health insurance? That will go well - people are too disadvantaged to get a state ID card, but they are not too disadvantaged to pay a fine.
Regards,
Shodan
---
### Author:  [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/119 "2015-03-19T14:59:30Z")
I think he said it would be unconstitutional at the federal level because currently states decide how elections are held. Granted, there are amendments to the constitution regarding voting rights. And an amendment is probably what it would take to enact and enforce mandatory voting.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [March 19, 2015, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189/120 "2015-03-19T15:01:01Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#):
>
> Cite? I’ve seen a lot of online discussions of this subject, but I’ve never seen an arguement that it would be unconstitutional, even by opponents.
I think it’s incumbent on those who think it IS constitutional to show us where the constitution gives the feds the authority to do so. Remember, for the feds, it’s not: Everything not forbidden is allowed; it’s: Everything not authorized is forbidden.
The only way I could see this being constitutional is for Congress to enact a tax for not voting. I supposed that is theoretically possible, but it is politically impossible. It would, however, be a “reverse poll tax” and that could have it’s own constitutional issues.
The case would have to be made that the “manner” of the elections includes whether people have the right to not vote if they so choose. And that would only apply to Senators and Representatives. Here are the two relevant sections:
> [@US Constitution](#):
>
> Article 1
>
> \
>
> Section. 4.
>
> The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.
>
> \
>
> Article 2
>
> \
>
> Section 1
>
> The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189.md?page=5)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandatory-voting/640189.md?page=7)