# Mandela sings about killing whites video-explain? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 15, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788 "2014-03-15T20:10:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/1 "2014-03-15T20:10:18Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc) I saw a link to this video from a Vice article about the white-man march. Since I am a bit of a masochist I can’t help but read a lot of the white supremacist comments on youtube, and I see a lot of accusations against Mandela by those types that he was a racist, but this is the first time I’ve ever seen a video that they claim has him supporting the killing of whites. Those white supremacist types tend to be the least honest of all human beings, but I am pretty ignorant of South Africa and Mandela, so can someone explain this video? I’m assuming that the subtitles and translations given are just bogus. Any idea? (It seems suspicious that a few of the people seeing the song look white to me, but then again what makes someone “white” or not varies greatly depending on the country so who knows). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/2 "2014-03-15T20:41:51Z")
Mandela changed a lot over the course of his life. When he was a young man back in the fifties and early sixties he was much more militant. There probably was a period when he thought the solution to South Africa’s problems was to get rid of all the white people. But Mandela grew up. He realized that the real solution was to work to bring all of the races of South Africa together on an equal footing. Which he did. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/3 "2014-03-15T21:02:03Z")
It’s an Umkhonto we Sizwe song called “Hamba Kahle Mkhonto”, or “Go well, Spear.” that gets sung at funerals and stuff…like, “Even though you’ve died, we’ll continue the fight.”, that sort of thing. I’m also, as per that video, curious as to how Ronnie Kasrils “isn’t white”. His parents were Lithuanian. You don’t get much more European. Is it because he’s Jewish, Youtube video? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/4 "2014-03-15T23:40:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Mandela changed a lot over the course of his life. When he was a young man back in the fifties and early sixties he was much more militant. There probably was a period when he thought the solution to South Africa’s problems was to get rid of all the white people. > > But Mandela grew up. He realized that the real solution was to work to bring all of the races of South Africa together on an equal footing. Which he did. I can understand that but that doesn’t really address the video specifically. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > It’s an Umkhonto we Sizwe song called “Hamba Kahle Mkhonto”, or “Go well, Spear.” that gets sung at funerals and stuff…like, “Even though you’ve died, we’ll continue the fight.”, that sort of thing. Interesting, but is the song racist, and are the subtitles accurate? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2014, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/5 "2014-03-15T23:58:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > … There probably was a period when he thought the solution to South Africa’s problems was to get rid of all the white people… [Trevor Huddleston](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Huddleston), among others, was a white man who supported the aims of the ANC at that time. I think Nelson Mandela hated Apartheid rather than white people. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/6 "2014-03-16T00:38:17Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Interesting, but is the song racist, and are the subtitles accurate? Well, “bhulu” probably translates better to “boers” specifically than “white people” in general, but other than that, I think it’s accurate. But, remember, Umkhonto we Sizwe was a guerrilla group that did that sort of thing…they attacked government troops and installations, planted bombs, etc. And militant songs don’t tend to go for nuance. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/7 "2014-03-16T04:20:24Z")
Interesting doublethink: one black person may said/done something racist, therefore I’m allowed to be racist. Mandela wasn’t exactly Desmond Tutu and many of the stuff he was involved in **was** terrorism. I don’t see or know of any motivation that was strictly racist. Then he had time to think in prison and grow. [Joe Slovo](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Slovo) was another Lithuanian Jew who was a higher up in ANC/MK. > [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And militant songs don’t tend to go for nuance. Those kinds of songs tend to bring out nuts on both sides. You’ll have militant unionists pop up in Irish song comments, or Armenians with anything Turkish. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/8 "2014-03-16T07:59:10Z")
For a sense of perspective, check out the United States national anthem. Sure it starts out relatively non-violent but listen to the parts that don’t get sung at ballgames. There’s stuff in there about how the British were all killed and _“their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.”_ ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/9 "2014-03-16T10:17:36Z")
La Marseillaise, too. Bloody banners and cutting throats. Killing despots. Using blood to water crops. And King Christian or “Kong Christian stod ved højen mast,” Denmark’s royal (not national) anthem. Chopping up Goths’ brains. More bloody flags. We had a thread awhile back, and I’ll repeat: a violent national anthem is a good national anthem. Safe ones suck. I’m looking at you, “Advance Australia Fair.” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/10 "2014-03-16T10:19:39Z")
From a Struggle perspective\*, it must be understood, the term “Boer” didn’t mean “White person” or even “Afrikaner”. It meant “Apartheid apparatchick or soldier”. If we were at a rally in the 80s and someone shouted “The _Boere_ are here” they meant the police and soldiers were there to break things up. And not all those soldiers and policemen were White - they could also be Coloureds or even Blacks (askari or koevoet). And yes, there were white people in MK. And they’d likely have sung the same struggle songs, and there’d be nothing self-hating about it. - and I mean this from personal experience ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/11 "2014-03-16T12:51:12Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > From a Struggle perspective\*, it must be understood, the term “Boer” didn’t mean “White person” or even “Afrikaner”. It meant “Apartheid apparatchick or soldier”. If we were at a rally in the 80s and someone shouted “The _Boere_ are here” they meant the police and soldiers were there to break things up. And not all those soldiers and policemen were White - they could also be Coloureds or even Blacks (askari or koevoet). > > And yes, there were white people in MK. And they’d likely have sung the same struggle songs, and there’d be nothing self-hating about it. > > - and I mean this from personal experience So kind of like how Americans say “the man” to refer to police and authority, rather than males? ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/12 "2014-03-16T21:52:50Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > From a Struggle perspective\*, it must be understood, the term “Boer” didn’t mean “White person” or even “Afrikaner”. It meant “Apartheid apparatchick or soldier”. If we were at a rally in the 80s and someone shouted “The _Boere_ are here” they meant the police and soldiers were there to break things up. And not all those soldiers and policemen were White - they could also be Coloureds or even Blacks (askari or koevoet). > > And yes, there were white people in MK. And they’d likely have sung the same struggle songs, and there’d be nothing self-hating about it. > > - and I mean this from personal experience Thanks, this kind of nuanced explaination was what I was looking for, and I figured it anyone could answer it to my satisfaction it would be you. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2014, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/13 "2014-03-17T16:08:22Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > So kind of like how Americans say “the man” to refer to police and authority, rather than males? Something like that. Although more pejorative. > [@rogerbox](#): > > Thanks, this kind of nuanced explaination was what I was looking for, and I figured it anyone could answer it to my satisfaction it would be you. no problem. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/14 "2014-03-18T22:54:48Z")
So, he was another Paula Deen? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/15 "2014-03-18T22:59:23Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > So, he was another Paula Deen? He didn’t like cooking with butter as much. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2014, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/16 "2014-03-18T23:52:30Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He didn’t like cooking with butter as much. No one liked cooking with butter as much. ---
**Author:** ![rogerbox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/76d3ee/32.png) [@rogerbox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rogerbox)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/17 "2014-03-19T16:05:23Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > So, he was another Paula Deen? I bet you think you have some kind of awesome point therein, somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2014, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/18 "2014-03-19T23:01:50Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > I bet you think you have some kind of awesome point therein, somewhere. Oh, what wit! You really put me down. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/19 "2023-12-15T17:32:56Z")
This is the equivalent of someone singing God Save the Queen with the verse about “Crushing the rebellious scot” or the Star Spangled banner with the “hireling and slave”. They are in there because of the historical context of a song, you wouldn’t suggest that simply by singing that God Save The Queen someone is advocating for a military campaign against Scotland, or by singing Star Spangled Banner they are advocating for a return of slavery. Similarly for this song. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788/20 "2023-12-15T19:35:00Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > This is the equivalent of someone singing God Save the Queen with the verse about “Crushing the rebellious scot” or the Star Spangled banner with the “hireling and slave”. Was there a particular reason to revive this 9 years on? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mandela-sings-about-killing-whites-video-explain/683788.md?page=2)