# Manhattan Fly-by -- really a photo-op? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016 "2009-05-01T20:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/61 "2009-05-06T10:46:22Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > When I saw the thread title my first thought was that the “conspiracy” was something to do with desensitising people to planes in the city, or some other similiar “toughening” exercise aimed at making people realise that terrorism just isn’t that prevalent. > > On the training front - sounds quite plausible to me to have pilot of AF1 doing low passes round a city as being quite a legitimate expense. Desensitizing people to planes in NYC??? Even if we ignore the fact that there are two rather large airports just off Manhattan, this would need to be done with AF1 for what reason? Flying around a city, even in a low pass as training??? I’m sure any pilot would be laughing their ass off at this notion. And even if, why? Explain to me why AF1 would need to make low passes around a city. And why it would need to fly all the way from DC to NYC to accomplish this? As I said before…2+2 is not equaling 4. Something is amiss. And if this was truly done only for a photo op…whoever’s brainstorm this was has seriously lost touch ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/62 "2009-05-06T13:25:40Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, tell me how you know a picture of the same 747 is new or old? What needs to be updated? If the picture has been distributed a ka-jillion times, it is old. It may not be old to everyone, but to some, they will have seen it a ka-jillion times. For the same reason that celebrities change their headshots periodically, businesses change their ads often, pictures of military stuff on the services’ websites change continuously, etc. Incidentally, for whatever reason, I do recall that the photo of AF1 flying over Mt Rushmore has been circulated for several years now. Is it a most profound and important thing to do? No. Is it worth getting a new publicity still every few years? Yeah, I can see that. I also think it would be a lot better to have made a spectacle of the event, like, “Hey, New Yorkers, come out and see Air Force One do a fly-by of the Statue of Liberty! It’ll be cool!” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/63 "2009-05-06T18:11:16Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If the picture has been distributed a ka-jillion times, it is old. It may not be old to everyone, but to some, they will have seen it a ka-jillion times. For the same reason that celebrities change their headshots periodically, businesses change their ads often, pictures of military stuff on the services’ websites change continuously, etc. Incidentally, for whatever reason, I do recall that the photo of AF1 flying over Mt Rushmore has been circulated for several years now. The White House’s position is to reduce or get rid of earmarks. It was part of his [Senate campaign](http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/15/obama.earmarks/index.html). This just makes them look out of touch with reality. When it gets released under the FOIA it will become the official poster for government waste during a recession. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/64 "2009-05-06T18:49:58Z")
What does this have to do with an earmark? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/65 "2009-05-06T19:53:10Z")
It’s a frickin’ botched up photo op. Photo ops occur all the time. There’s probably about 50 going on right now. Going on about “why is he doing this during these tough economic times” is a smoke screen. Are we going to start niggling over which vendor provides the cheaper salt and pepper packets at the White House commisary next? ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/66 "2009-05-06T20:11:02Z")
A little anecdote about the Air Force and training hours… When my dad was in the AF he was stationed up in Montana and he and his crew had to get down to a different base ASAP for something. He was told to be on the runway at a certain time, and they were expecting the normal transport airplane to fly them down. Turns out it was a refeuling plane that came to pick them up and it was being flown by 2 generals and a full colonel. These guys were the commanders of the refeuling wing of the AF and had to get their X number of hours in a month to stay flight rated. Since they were out having to fly anyway, they did something useful with the time. If they didn’t take my dad’s crew, they would have been flying a big circle over No Dakota for 9 hours just to log hours. Instead, they did something useful. So, what was the cost of a refeuling aircraft, its normal crew, 2 generals, and a colonel to fly a couple of Lieutenants and a Captain 1500 miles? Alot, I’m sure, but the money would have been spent anyway. Maybe they should be thanked for saving the tax payers money by ‘multi tasking’. 🙂 So, to the actual point in question, it was a bit dumb they did this in NYC, but I can’t get all freaked out over the cost of flying the mission. I think I’d prefer the guys that fly AF1 practice and get hours in AF1 and not a Cessna because it is cheaper. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/67 "2009-05-06T20:18:44Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > So, to the actual point in question, it was a bit dumb they did this in NYC, but I can’t get all freaked out over the cost of flying the mission. I think I’d prefer the guys that fly AF1 practice and get hours in AF1 and not a Cessna because it is cheaper. This is my point … better stated. ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/68 "2009-05-06T20:50:21Z")
Now the photos and a report are going to be released. > **[White House plans to release plane flyover report, photo - CNN.com](http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/05/06/air.force.one.flyover/index.html)** > > The White House indicated Wednesday that a report and a photo from the controversial low-altitude New York flyover by a 747 plane used as Air Force One could be released soon. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/69 "2009-05-06T20:55:31Z")
And they’ll probably be shitty photos that they wouldn’t have otherwise been released because of their shittiness, and we’ll be inundated with, “We paid $300,000 for these shitty photos?” ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/70 "2009-05-07T02:11:14Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > And they’ll probably be shitty photos that they wouldn’t have otherwise been released because of their shittiness, and we’ll be inundated with, “We paid $300,000 for these shitty photos?” Even if they are the best photos possible, it still doesn’t make sense in these economic times to flush $350K down the crapper. This will be great campaign material for the opposition during the next election. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/71 "2009-05-07T02:13:20Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > So, to the actual point in question, it was a bit dumb they did this in NYC, but I can’t get all freaked out over the cost of flying the mission. I think I’d prefer the guys that fly AF1 practice and get hours in AF1 and not a Cessna because it is cheaper. After all, AF1 is hardly ever used and the pilots never get to log any airtime :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/72 "2009-05-07T03:04:31Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > Even if they are the best photos possible, it still doesn’t make sense in these economic times to flush $350K down the crapper. This will be great campaign material for the opposition during the next election. Are you serious? The Defense Department has a half trillion dollar annual budget, not including what we’re spending in Iraq and Afghanistan. There’s a very good name for $300,000 in a budget of that size: decimal dust. If the Pentagon only squandered $300k a day, we’d only be out $109 million a year. Do you honestly think the Pentagon doesn’t lose track of substantially more money each year? $109 million would be a MASSIVE improvement!!! $300,000 isn’t a campaign issue. It’s like making someone’s spouse sleep on the couch because they lost a nickel. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/73 "2009-05-07T04:06:44Z")
/tinfoil I have it on good advice that this was actually a practice run for 9/11. See, they train for it today, then beam the pilots back to the past. That way nobody sees the training done for 9/11 because it’s taking place in the future. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/74 "2009-05-07T04:40:45Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Are you serious? The Defense Department has a half trillion dollar annual budget, not including what we’re spending in Iraq and Afghanistan. There’s a very good name for $300,000 in a budget of that size: decimal dust. If the Pentagon only squandered $300k a day, we’d only be out $109 million a year. Do you honestly think the Pentagon doesn’t lose track of substantially more money each year? $109 million would be a MASSIVE improvement!!! > > $300,000 isn’t a campaign issue. It’s like making someone’s spouse sleep on the couch because they lost a nickel. I’m very serious. This will NEVER be looked at as a flyspeck on a bigger budget by the people busting their asses just to make ends meet. It will always be $350k pissed away for nothing. It will go on the trophy wall right beside the toilet seat and the other crap the government pissed away money on. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/75 "2009-05-07T14:44:01Z")
And yet, again, the [$17 billion Obama wants to cut from the budget](http://money.cnn.com/2009/05/06/news/economy/obama_budget_cuts/index.htm?postversion=2009050620)won’t count for shit because of the egregious waste of 0.00002% of that for a photo-op. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/76 "2009-05-07T14:58:26Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Now the [White House is refusing to release the pictures](http://www.nypost.com/seven/05052009/news/regionalnews/phantom_air_farce_pictures_167671.htm). It’s just a matter of time before the Freedom of Information Act releases the photos and the details of the flight. Oh, goody! A New York Post link. These always make me so happy. I could have told you who thinks this is an outrage and who thinks it’s not a big deal before it ever happened. Bo-ring. Such admirable concern for the waste of military resources being voiced here… we have never wasted a significant amount of military resources for a largely useless endeavor _before_ this administration. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/77 "2009-05-07T16:14:09Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > Oh, goody! A New York Post link. These always make me so happy. You remember New York, It was were attacked by large low flying aircraft. Thousands killed. It was in the paper. > [@stolichnaya](#): > > Such admirable concern for the waste of military resources being voiced here… we have never wasted a significant amount of military resources for a largely useless endeavor _before_ this administration. Yes, The unemployed have always shown a great appreciation for $350,000 file photos of the king’s chariot during a recession. Let them eat cake.:rolleyes: Kinda like flying to Denver to sign a spending bill to show us our money is being spent wisely (which also cost over $300,000). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/78 "2009-05-07T16:24:43Z")
I flipped past the Glen Beck show on radio over lunch. His talking point was this: Obama wants you to think the $17 billion he’s proposing being cut is a lot of money. But he doesn’t want you to realize that that’s just a drop in the bucket up against a $350 trillion budget. He was oddly silent on the gargantuan photo-op bill. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/79 "2009-05-07T16:41:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, The unemployed have always shown a great appreciation for $350,000 file photos of the king’s chariot during a recession. Let them eat cake.:rolleyes: Kinda like flying to Denver to sign a spending bill to show us our money is being spent wisely (which also cost over $300,000). I wonder how much the former emperor spent on the photo-op consisting of showing us his admittedly much smaller chariot (but his came with a cod piece), when he - completely necessarily, mind you - flew to an aircraft carrier off the west coast to inform us that Mission Wasn’t Really Accomplished Despite What I’m Saying And The Big Fucking Sign Behind Me. Nah. I’m sure that doesn’t count either. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/80 "2009-05-07T16:49:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You remember New York, It was were attacked by large low flying aircraft. Thousands killed. It was in the paper. > > Yes, The unemployed have always shown a great appreciation for $350,000 file photos of the king’s chariot during a recession. Let them eat cake.:rolleyes: Kinda like flying to Denver to sign a spending bill to show us our money is being spent wisely (which also cost over $300,000). I have already said that your concern is admirable. What more can I do? You are a great American. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016.md?page=5)