# Manhattan Fly-by -- really a photo-op? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016 "2009-05-01T20:10:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/141 "2009-05-10T13:41:55Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t see anyone defending the photo op, other than me saying I understand that photos have to be updated periodically, but that this was done completely wrong. > > Everyone else is saying $350k isn’t a lot of money for the government. And it isn’t. > > Basically, you are so worked up about this incident, which will be forgotten soon enough, that non-hysteria looks like “defending the undefendable” to you. > > But then, I’m sure you’re worked up over everything Obama does, big or small. I’m doubting you have much perspective on what constitutes a minor gaffe and what constitutes the march toward socialism, or whatever the teabaggers want to call it. Just remember, Obama HUSSEIN Obama finding $17B to cut from the budget is a pointless stunt. What’s saving $350K considered? A super-duper mega-pointless losery stunt? Saving big money, bad. Spending little money, bad. Abdicating for the Alaskan Governor? Good! -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/142 "2009-05-10T23:17:49Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > You mean besides being a pilot, with a plane hangared at an F-16 training base and someone possessing basic common sense? > > I fly closer to aircaft every year going into Oshkosh and I’ve done a fair amount of aerial photography. Rendezvousing with a 747 to take pictures is a waste of military training time. Ya know, **Magiver** you are completely right… There is no military training reason for an F-16 to go find a large plane in the sky and take pictures of it… Oh wait… List of Tupelev T-95 encounters since 2000: > **[Tupolev Tu-95](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-95#Encounters_after_2000)** > > The Tupolev Tu-95 (Russian: Туполев Ту-95; NATO reporting name: "Bear") is a large, four-engine turboprop-powered strategic bomber and missile platform. First flown in 1952, the Tu-95 entered service with the Long-Range Aviation of the Soviet Air Forces in 1956 and was first used in combat in 2015. It is expected to serve the Russian Aerospace Forces until at least 2040. > A development of the bomber for maritime patrol is designated the Tu-142, while a passenger airliner derivative was called t... An F-16 escorting a Bear bomber: [http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4999/russiantupolev95bearbomog5.jpg](http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4999/russiantupolev95bearbomog5.jpg) Geez, now even the silly British are doing it: [![](https://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/TyphoonL2108_468x348.jpg) ](https://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/TyphoonL2108_468x348.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/143 "2009-05-11T03:16:12Z")
> [@Improvisor](#): > > Ya know, **Magiver** you are completely right… There is no military training reason for an F-16 to go find a large plane in the sky and take pictures of it… > > Oh wait… > List of Tupelev T-95 encounters since 2000: > [Tupolev Tu-95 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tu-95#Encounters_after_2000) > > An F-16 escorting a Bear bomber: > [ImageShack - Best place for all of your image hosting and image sharing needs](http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4999/russiantupolev95bearbomog5.jpg) > > Geez, now even the silly British are doing it: > [http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08\_02/TyphoonL2108\_468x348.jpg](http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/08_02/TyphoonL2108_468x348.jpg) Your argument doesn’t make sense. intercepting a T-95 doesn’t require any skill. What skill is involved? That’s like saying a policeman logged driver training time by responding to an accident. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/144 "2009-05-11T19:25:21Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your argument doesn’t make sense. intercepting a T-95 doesn’t require any skill. What skill is involved? That’s like saying a policeman logged driver training time by responding to an accident. Interception and formation flight is most definitely a skill. From what I understand, it is a bedrock skill of military aviation. People in General Aviation do it all the time with their friends. But they usually don’t have training and may be unaware of the risks. I’m a professional flight instructor, and will not teach formation flight. It’s a specialized skill which I know a little about, but for which I’m untrained and unqualified to teach. So to bring this around to our discussion, the formation aspect of the photo mission is relevant flight experience, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/145 "2009-05-11T20:04:27Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > Interception and formation flight is most definitely a skill. From what I understand, it is a bedrock skill of military aviation. > > People in General Aviation do it all the time with their friends. But they usually don’t have training and may be unaware of the risks. I’m a professional flight instructor, and will not teach formation flight. It’s a specialized skill which I know a little about, but for which I’m untrained and unqualified to teach. > > So to bring this around to our discussion, the formation aspect of the photo mission is relevant flight experience, IMHO. It’s hard to put this in perspective but I’ll go back to cars as an example. People who aren’t race car drivers don’t understand the skills involved but acknowledge that they are different and more complex. Intercepting another plane is like a race car driving to the race track. It’s not a skill the driver needs to practice. I have all kinds of Russian Bear pictures from my brother when he flew in P3’s. Flying in proximity of another aircraft as an intercept is not formation flying in a skill sense (unless your a Chinese fighter pilot who thinks it’s a Blue Angels exhibition flight). You don’t fly close to the plane. In order to get a picture of a 747 you have to be quite a distance away. The money spent making the picture is not the end of the world. It was just a waste of money. It’s the one thing Governments tend to do well. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016/146 "2009-05-11T21:13:28Z")
I’m kinda surprised no former military pilots have chimed in here. I’m not one, but I work with several, and I can add some anecdotes here. At my last job in ACC, we used to get “down days” when our wing met its monthly flying hours. That is, they had a quota for hours they had to be in the air, and if they didn’t make it, the entire wing (including comm people like myself) were “punished” by not getting our free day off. It was a recon wing, so yes, there were lots of RC/EC-135s that just took off and flew around the midwest just to get hours. Now, F16s might be different, but from stories I’ve heard from working alongside F16 pilots for the last 4 years, I can tell you that they take lots of stupid trips just to get hours. I’m not sure what percentage of their training is “combat” and what is “fly around so we can log these hours and keep you green,” but I’ve heard stories about F16s being used like UPS. Now, that being said, we have no idea who these pilots were, how many hours they had this month, if these counted for anything. But the idea that F16 pilots are either sitting around watching TV or shooting at targets in NV isn’t accurate. There’s plenty of in-between training that mostly just involves flying around doing pointless stuff. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-fly-by-really-a-photo-op/495016.md?page=7)