# manhattan & Gaudere sitting on a tree. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356 "2003-10-14T12:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/182 "2003-10-19T06:39:31Z")
------- “I suspect he is one of those people who is congenitally unable to admit he’s been wrong about something.” I’ve seen Manhattan admit he was wrong. FWIW. I’ve also seen him backpaddle. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/183 "2003-10-19T06:46:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*Or is there anyone here who believes President Bush rapes children in the White House? > \*\* I’ll take **“Reeder”** for $500, Jack… 😃 -Rav ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/184 "2003-10-19T12:13:27Z")
A four page long thread to determine that **manhattan** is a card-carrying member of the True Believers Foaming and Frothing Lemmings 4Dubya Brigade® And that’s news, how? Fuck him. ---
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/185 "2003-10-19T15:26:29Z")
It’s news to me **RedFury**. I wasn’t surprised by the vehemence in the initial thread, inappropriate though it was. I _was_ surprised at the heavy use of the specious “the Cuban government controls everything” line. And I was dismayed by the weasel “X-liar” tosh. **Manny** ’s a right-winger, but over a very long period of time I’ve observed him putting the fight against ignorance first and making this place what it is (a place where the voice of reason does not have the stage to itself, but is always audible). In this instance I’m disappointed. Those who say that **manhattan** is getting a soft ride have short memories. It takes a lot to get banned here if you’re a well-established poster. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/186 "2003-10-19T22:38:55Z")
> [@](#): > > It takes a lot to get banned here if you’re a well-established poster. You need only look to an earlier section of this thread to see that this is not always the case. ---
**Author:** ![CnoteChris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/278dde/32.png) [@CnoteChris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CnoteChris)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2003, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/187 "2003-10-19T23:43:53Z")
Zing!! ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/188 "2003-10-20T00:32:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Weird With Words \* > \*\*You need only look to an earlier section of this thread to see that this is not always the case. \*\* [Being banned because of having a sock](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=2679597#post2679597) isn’t equivalent to this particular case; **hawthorne** was talking about what you write, not as whom you write it. > [@](#): > > Only one screen name is permitted per user. If you wish to change screen names please email an administrator. Use of multiple screen names is grounds for revocation of your right to post under ANY screen name. At any rate, the unbanning for you and yer pop happened quickly and **Lynn** admitted her mistake. Other than being casuistical or offering that up as fun tongue-in-cheek, I’m not seeing the relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/189 "2003-10-20T01:55:21Z")
As I’ve said before in this thread, I don’t find it remotely hard to believe that **Lynn** was just doing her job. And I don’t think there was any great miscarriage of justice. But I also don’t think they make any bones about the fact that they treat some similar cases differently. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/190 "2003-10-20T17:32:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by hawthorne \* > **I wasn’t surprised by the vehemence in the initial thread, inappropriate though it was. I _was_ surprised at the heavy use of the specious “the Cuban government controls everything” line. And I was dismayed by the weasel “X-liar” tosh.** This is the most important issue in this thread, and if we’re not careful it can really cause problems in GD. Here is my take on the issue. I think the distinction between an assertion that a particular person is Pro-X and an assertion that someone is a Pro-X liar is a distinction without a difference. The theory behind the distinction is that, although the motive was not to support X, the actual effect of telling a lie about X is that it will support X. Therefore, person A is now promoting X through the use of their lies. Their intention was to denounce position Y, but their rhetoric served to weaken the denunciation of X, therefore they are promoting X. Look, if you want to accuse someone of being pro-X, then just do it. This Pro-X liar thing is just an extension of the logically dubious “useful idiots” theory. If a Poster A believes Poster B is lying in order to discredit Talking Head Q, who is denouncing position Z, but Poster A supports Talking Head Q and their message, then attack the lies. Saying Poster B is a pro-Z liar is just nonsense. Poster A has no idea if Poster B is pro-Z or anti-Z. All they know is that Poster A has critized the statements of Talking Head Q. It is fully possible to think Talking Head Q is full of shit and their assertions about issue Z miss the mark and still not be pro-Z. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/191 "2003-10-21T21:32:10Z")
\*\*Mtgman[/], taking into account that he accused me of the same thing twice with different words there is just no doubt that he was directly insulting me and smearing me and trying to discredit me because he could not discredit my arguments. He has a very short fuse, that’s for sure Now the whole X-liar thing is a pathetic attempt at weaseling and justifying what he did. It is so ridiculously convoluted and false that it is worthy of Johnny Cochran. It is the same tactic of those who say that if you do not agree with presient Bush then you are pro-terrorist. Or, as happened in some thread quite some time ago where someone claimed a _huge_ percentage of women were raped during their lifetimes. Anyone who questioned the statistic was branded pretty much pro-rape or, at least, indiferent to rape. With people like that you can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Weird\_With\_Words](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weird_with_words/32/385_2.png) [@Weird\_With\_Words](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weird_With_Words)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/192 "2003-10-21T22:04:39Z")
**Sailor** , m’man, it’s time to drop it. Your purposes have been well served, most everyone here sees that **manny** ’s a dick, and will be even more likely to react when he says something like that again. And we both know he will. No purpose could be served by keeping this thread going any longer. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/194 "2003-10-22T05:46:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny Bravo \* > **Could someone please explain the difference between an _X_ and _X_-liar to me? I still don’t see the distinction, or even the intended distinction.** Actually, I read Manny to be saying “You’re so eager to attack Bush you support a government that encourages child prostitution (Cuba) (by lying and saying it doesn’t)” ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/195 "2003-10-22T19:18:58Z")
I guess I’m a pro-child prostitution liar too then. I also say the Cuban government doesn’t encourage child prostitution. Although I couldn’t care less about Bush’s position on the subject. I’ve extensively supported my position in the original thread in GD. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![fruitbat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58f4c7/32.png) [@fruitbat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fruitbat)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/196 "2003-10-22T20:00:36Z")
> [@](#): > > For example, some of you might recall when a couple of years ago Manhattan blatantly baited a poster named Sultan Kinkari into getting banned- they both said equally unacceptable things, but Manhattan didn’t get banned (he might have gotten a private warning, I’m not sure) just because of his position. And that’s not to mention the ‘Catholic church = pedophiles’ thing that has already been discussed. Get rid of him already. You are talking about this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91564&perpage=50&pagenumber=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=91564&perpage=50&pagenumber=1) Un-Fucking-believable. I don’t know (ahem) who you are **Pit Vulture** , but you can’t be serious. **Manny** was just joining in one of the most deserved pile ons in SDMB history. I’m sure you hoped no one would bother to look that one up and actually read it. I’m done with the substance of this discussion as I stepped in earlier to make my feelings known. That little attempt to impugn **Manny** by citing the linked thread however, was patently absurd. ---
**Author:** ![elf6c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c57346/32.png) [@elf6c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elf6c)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/197 "2003-10-22T20:12:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by essvee \* > \*\*Manhattan’s specious wriggling re: “pro-child prostitution” and “pro- child prostitution liar” is absolutely mindboggling. I simply cannot believe he could say what he said and believe it to be true. > > . . . . > > That being said, manhattan’s shot at Guin re: the Catholic Crutch is probably the most disgusting thing I’ve ever read on these boards. The fact he wasn’t tossed after that, or at the very least relieved of his moderator duties, speaks volumes. > > He comes off as a pretty reprehensible human being, although I’m sure he loves puppies and children as much as the next frothing lunatic. IMHO, YMMV, etc. \*\* Having suffered through the entire thread I have to agree. No poster has fallen so far so fast in my estimation. His Jerk-ish shot against Guin is beyond comprehension. Thanks to **Gaudere** for explaining the warning distinctions. It must be hard punishing a member that has given alot of effort to the SDMB in the past, but this Board is bigger then any one poster- well other then the Perfect Master. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_-liar? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356.md?page=9)