# manhattan & Gaudere sitting on a tree. . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 14, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356 "2003-10-14T12:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/121 "2003-10-17T02:59:08Z")
Yes, of course **manny** fucked up big time, was more aggressive, and so on; your criticisms of him are spot on. Unfortunately, he, to all appearances, is paying no attention to this thread at this point, and beyond pitting him myself, how would you suggest I engage him? You, on the other hand, are still an active participant, and I hold out high hopes that I can convince you that taking an approach that may be seen as initiating hostilities is not the most productive way to approach a debate. Maybe the “lie, lie, blatant lie, lie” post wasn’t intended to be seen in this light, but I think most people would see it as an accusation of dishonesty. I certainly did. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/122 "2003-10-17T06:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > \*\*Maybe the “lie, lie, blatant lie, lie” post wasn’t intended to be seen in this light, but I think most people would see it as an accusation of dishonesty. I certainly did. \*\* Please stick to speaking for yourself. I took **sailor’s** words to mean that he was accusing **manhattan** of uncritically repeating the lies of the Bush administration. The administration is lying; **manhattan** isn’t a liar, he’s just a parrot. It was abundantly clear that **manhattan** wasn’t producing these charges about Cuban government policy based on his own research. If he were, then I would have read the “lies” epithet differently. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/123 "2003-10-17T06:59:15Z")
> [@](#): > > The administration is lying; manhattan isn’t a liar, he’s just a parrot. So now we get down to the nitty-gritty… is it worse to call someone a liar, or a parrot? Hmm. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/124 "2003-10-17T07:05:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*So now we get down to the nitty-gritty… is it worse to call someone a liar, or a parrot? > > Hmm. \*\* Overly literal. He’s “parroting” the administration’s line, ergo, a “parrot.” It’s what’s called a “figure of speech.” You could look it up. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/125 "2003-10-17T07:20:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Overly literal. And you got a stick up yer ass. Wanna compare notes? ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/126 "2003-10-17T07:23:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\*Wanna compare notes? \*\* Huh? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/127 "2003-10-17T07:24:57Z")
If you have a stick up your arse, you produce a higher note. ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/128 "2003-10-17T08:08:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > And you got a stick up yer ass. Wanna compare notes? I think we have heard enough about your masturbatory aids… ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/129 "2003-10-17T09:49:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > So now we get down to the nitty-gritty… is it worse to call someone a liar, or a parrot? Depends on what kind of liar and what kind of parrot. This is a complex subject which still keeps scientists busy. It doesn’t matter though because although manhattan \*did \* call me a liar repeatedly, he naver called me a parrot. He did say I was pro-child-prostitution and we can all agree that is worse than being called a liar or a parrot. Note that Manhattan has called me a **liar** _repeatedly_ and has accused me of being pro child prostitution _repeatedly_. > [@](#): > > I’ve seen a lot of lies, dirty tricks and other bad stuff thrown out to justify people’s blind hatred of President Bush. But **sailor** , I have to admit that defending child prostitution is a new one. and further down in the same post > [@](#): > > You are a pro-child-prostitution liar. It is ridiculous to think he was offended by my words which do not come close to being as caustic as he routinely uses. The fact is that he was frustrated by my questioning of his assertions. Sorry but that is what GD is for. You assert something in GD and it _will_ be questioned. His frustration comes from cognitive dissonance: he believes one thing. He believes president Bush and the US government are not liars. He _really_ wants to believe it. And yet here is sailor questioning those beliefs. That is frustrating. Rather than re-examine the facts and his beliefs he blasts sailor. I have presented evidence that manhattan routinely uses stronger language than I do. There is just no excuse for what he did. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/130 "2003-10-17T09:53:10Z")
Seems obsessed. Manny’s probably a child molestor himself. It’s OK to say that, right? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/131 "2003-10-17T12:10:35Z")
No, it’s not, **Badtz**. Knock it off. You may think **Manhattan** was warned too lightly, but he _was_ warned. I don’t know where you get the idea that calling people child molestors is somehow OK. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/132 "2003-10-17T12:32:47Z")
His warning told him to ‘tone it down or take it to the Pit’. That implied that accusing someone of being a child molestor was OK in the Pit. Glad to get that straightened out. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/133 "2003-10-17T12:34:13Z")
That quote was not verbatim, should not have put it in quotes, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/134 "2003-10-17T13:20:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Clarification of above post: manny called RTA a cheap-shot artist. You forgot “lying sack of shit”. Ah, memories. I’m glad he’s not a moderator any more. He’s way too angry, and with a hair trigger to boot. No hard feelings though. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/135 "2003-10-17T13:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Badtz Maru \* > \*\*His warning told him to ‘tone it down or take it to the Pit’. That implied that accusing someone of being a child molestor was OK in the Pit. > > Glad to get that straightened out. \*\* I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who had that reaction to the warning. I have mixed feelings about it, however. While accusing someone of being a child molester seems out of line in _any_ forum, it’s tough to define the lines of propriety in the Pit, and it may be a good thing to have one forum where almost anything goes. I suppose the line’s got to be drawn somewhere, but it’s hard to say where that line is these days. ---
**Author:** ![g8rguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@g8rguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/g8rguy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/136 "2003-10-17T14:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > **Please stick to speaking for yourself.** And precisely what part of the words “I think” do you not understand? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/137 "2003-10-17T14:19:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Coldfire \* > \*\* I don’t know where you get the idea that calling people child molestors is somehow OK. \*\* From **Manhattan** , perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![thinksnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thinksnow/32/2849_2.png) [@thinksnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thinksnow)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/138 "2003-10-17T14:47:15Z")
Jumping back a bit to the three year old “cognitively handicapped” linked by **Lib** , I found this too funny to pass up: > [@](#): > > **sailor** > I am here for intelligent and enlightning exchanges. I am a pit virgin and intend to remain that way as I do not enjoy trading insults… But I’ll be happy to go to the apology thread and apologize there for a while Heh. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/139 "2003-10-17T14:49:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > \*\*And precisely what part of the words “I think” do you not understand? \*\* I was referring to this: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by g8rguy \* > **…but I think most people would see it as an accusation of dishonesty…** wherein you claim to know what “most people” would think. Technically, you’re correct - you prefaced it by “I think.” Still, you were trying to buttress your argument by asserting that many others would agree with you, without being able to demonstrate that fact. Why not just stick to saying that _you_ took **sailor’s** statements to be an accusation of dishonesty (which you ultimately did)? Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356/140 "2003-10-17T14:49:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mazirian \* > \*\*I think we have heard enough about your masturbatory aids… \*\* This will definitely go in Page o’ Funnies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-gaudere-sitting-on-a-tree/207356.md?page=8)