# manhattan: losing touch with reality, and following in Lib's cryptic footsteps **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 18, 2005, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691 "2005-02-18T10:23:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691/121 "2005-02-20T04:55:41Z")
Oh fuck. Look, I apologize to both **RTFirefly** and **Polycarp** for the excessive venom of my posts above. You aren’t the ones I am angry at, and you should not have been the ones I vented at. Sorry. Damn. Maybe I need to take a break from the SDMB for a bit. This wasn’t right, and it wasn’t the first time either. Anyway, I am sorry. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691/122 "2005-02-20T15:16:18Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Look, I apologize to both **RTFirefly** and **Polycarp** for the excessive venom of my posts above. You aren’t the ones I am angry at, and you should not have been the ones I vented at. Well damn, it kinda takes the steam out of the clever counterattack I was getting ready to finish up, if you’re just gonna go and apologize on me. _Be_ that way. 😉 I apologize too - I threw some smack at you in this debate that was beyond what was warranted. > [@](#): > > Damn. Maybe I need to take a break from the SDMB for a bit. This wasn’t right, and it wasn’t the first time either. Though we disagree on practically everything, I think you contribute a lot to our debates. If you feel the need for a break, I hope it’s a short one. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2005, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691/123 "2005-02-20T15:31:35Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Others have alluded to it, but to be clear – the $1.5 trillion that everyone in the universe agrees will be paid back isn’t the real problem. Yeah, except that not everyone in the universe - even if you’re right about Bush, which I disagree - agrees with that. > [@](#): > > The real problem, the one which at some point (and people can have reasonable differences about when that point is) is the other $10 or so trillion that’s promised to future recipients but which the surplus, invested in inter-government treasury securities, will not cover. Yeah, the trust fund surplus _will not cover_ promised benefits to retirees in the year 2525. (If man is still alive, if woman can survive.) But that’s what we’re talking about with the $10 trillion: promised benefits out to _infinity_. I’m personally ready to let the Sci-Fi Channel deal with that problem. Dealing with ‘crises’ that don’t reach fruition until the indefinite future, when you’re ignoring big-ass problems on your doorstep, is an indication of fundamental unseriousness. > [@](#): > > The '83 Social Security commission was always supposed to be a temporary fix, to tide us over until the baby boomers started retiring. It worked. But ‘temporary’ is soon going to be over. The ‘fix’ fixes _Social Security_ until 2042, by current projections, and that date receded 13 years in the past 8 years. It should keep receding a bit, too. But if we can borrow $4.5 trillion over the next 20 years to pay the transition costs for Bush’s plan, why can’t we borrow the $3.7 billion that the Trustees say will keep Social Security solvent until 2079? > [@](#): > > but first lying sacks like **RT** have to be dispatched with. Dispatch me, big boy. I’m waiting with bated breath. Gonna open up that Pit thread to explain why I should be banned? I need a chuckle or two. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691/124 "2005-02-21T04:30:30Z")
Well, if **Manhattan** is arguing that the trust funds are an entity in and of themselves that hold assets… then he is wrong. If he is saying that the SS obligation is an actual one than hopefully he would be able to define exactly who is obligated to what. That the SS trusts have been commingled with the GF is a matter of record. That the trusts hold no assets is also a matter of record. What my SS Statement actually shows me is how much I put into the program, and how much I will receive under different circumstances provided the government doesn’t decide to alter it. Since can it be altered or nullified or otherwised changed on me, and anybody without recourse or warning, I am wondering in what sense this thing qualifies as an obligation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-losing-touch-with-reality-and-following-in-libs-cryptic-footsteps/290691.md?page=6)