# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/181 "2023-03-20T17:21:20Z")
[Politico is reporting the indictment could come today or Wednesday.](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/20/law-enforcement-donald-trump-indictment-plan-00087836) > An indictment by a grand jury is expected late Monday or Wednesday, according to three people involved in the deliberations. ETA: No perp walk is expected. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/182 "2023-03-20T17:23:49Z")
That’s funny – are they avoiding Tues because Trump said Tues? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/183 "2023-03-20T17:24:01Z")
Are we totally sure these stories aren’t being planted by Donald Trump? After all, if he DOESN’T get arrested, he can claim he stared down the “Deep state.” ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/184 "2023-03-20T17:25:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s funny – are they avoiding Tues because Trump said Tues? I suppose that it’s possible that the grand jury doesn’t convene on Tuesdays. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/185 "2023-03-20T17:25:33Z")
Today’s a good day for it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/186 "2023-03-20T17:25:42Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That’s funny – are they avoiding Tues because Trump said Tues? I think it’s more likely that if the grand jury hands down indictments today, it will take until tomorrow or Wednesday to arrange Trump’s surrender to the arraignment court. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/187 "2023-03-20T17:26:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I suppose that it’s possible that the grand jury doesn’t convene on Tuesdays. This is true. This grand jury is meeting only on Mondays and Wednesdays. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/188 "2023-03-20T17:30:14Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > it will take until tomorrow or Wednesday to arrange Trump’s surrender to the arraignment court. Or until the heat death of the universe. Donny is probably digging a spiderhole as we speak. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/189 "2023-03-20T17:34:01Z")
Maybe they told him the indictment would be a surprise. > **[Unexpected hanging paradox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unexpected_hanging_paradox)** > > The unexpected hanging paradox or surprise test paradox is a paradox about a person's expectations about the timing of a future event which they are told will occur at an unexpected time. The paradox is variously applied to a prisoner's hanging or a surprise school test. It was first introduced to the public in Martin Gardner's March 1963 Mathematical Games column in Scientific American magazine. > There is no consensus on its precise nature and consequently a canonical resolution has not been ag... ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/190 "2023-03-20T18:08:00Z")
I have often thought that over the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/191 "2023-03-20T18:08:20Z")
Would they set these things up a day or two in advance or on the day? > ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/192 "2023-03-20T18:14:48Z")
I’ve seen them go up a few days early for parades, Concerts in the Park and Yankees post seasons games. So based on that, Yes. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/193 "2023-03-20T18:20:43Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I don’t think we want that, right H20 contained hydrocarbon sack? Nope, nope, we’re good! > [@What\_Exit](#): > > So based on that, Yes. I agree, it takes a long time to get all the barriers to where they are needed and get them in place. They’ll do it ahead of time. Trump’s “exculpatory” witness was to testify Monday so Wednesday would probably be the earliest. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/194 "2023-03-20T18:22:34Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > t will take until tomorrow or Wednesday to arrange Trump’s surrender to the arraignment court. okay folks, I have a question that ought to be in FQ: what does "surrender: mean? What are the procedures for an indictment, and how are they different than an arrest? A quick google showed me that an indictment is just a decision by the grand jury that there is probable cause, and therefor a court trial will be held, and the accused will be required to appear in court. So when do the handcuffs appear? How is indicting a person different than just giving a subpeona to a person --who then must appear in court on a certain date.? (in which case nobody threatens handcuffing or arresting them) I assume that a person who is not a flight risk can simply be told that his trial begins on such and such a date (usually a year or more away). He then is told to get a lawyer and appear on that date, and till then, he is free, on bail or without paying bail. So why is everyone screaming about “arresting” Trump tomorrow?, and erecting barricades to protect the courthouse, when Trump himself won’t even be there? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/195 "2023-03-20T18:25:39Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So why is everyone screaming about “arresting” Trump tomorrow?, Wishful thinking. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/196 "2023-03-20T18:28:48Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > So why is everyone screaming about “arresting” Trump tomorrow? Because Trump, himself, told people, on his Truth Social platform, that he expected to be arrested on Tuesday. There may or may not be any evidence to suggest that this would actually be happening on Tuesday, but he clearly wanted to incite his base. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/197 "2023-03-20T18:31:58Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > I assume that a person who is not a flight risk can simply be told that his trial begins on such and such a date (usually a year or more away). He then is told to get a lawyer and appear on that date, and till then, he is free, on bail or without paying bail. > So why is everyone screaming about “arresting” Trump tomorrow?, and erecting barricades to protect the courthouse, when Trump himself won’t even be there? He would have to be arraigned. So, they can issue an arrest warrant, or he can agree to “surrender.” Which just means showing up for fingerprinting, mug shots, and arraignment. They may put him in handcuffs when they transport him to wherere they take his fingerprints. We may not see that part of it. Also, there are several hearings between arraignment and trial. He may be able to waive is presence at those (I’m not sure about NY criminal procedures). But yes, he will almost certainly be allowed to remain free pending trial. That’s likely a major reason he’s surrendering rather than making the police bring him in. He’s establishing that he can be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/198 "2023-03-20T18:34:37Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > okay folks, I have a question that ought to be in FQ: what does "surrender: mean? It means the prosecutors and the defendant agree that in lieu of an arrest, the defendant will voluntarily appear for an arraignment proceeding. > [@chappachula](#): > > What are the procedures for an indictment, and how are they different than an arrest? An indictment is simply a written statement that the prosecutors have proven their case to a number of ordinary citizens, sitting as grand jurors, that there is probable cause to believe he committed a crime. In other parts of the country, the grand jury process is handled via a preliminary hearing, but I won’t confuse your understanding with an explanation of this. > [@chappachula](#): > > So when do the handcuffs appear? Let’s talk first about the arraignment. An arraignment is the first mandatory appearance by a defendant for any charge. The arraignment is held for the purpose of advising the defendant of what charges he is facing, what bail (if any) will be set, any conditions of bail or own recognizance release, and what plea is being entered by the defendant – customarily, “not guilty.” Handcuffs appear if a defendant is brought to the court via an arrest. If Trump appears voluntarily, as it seems he will, there will be no “arrest” and no handcuffs. Likewise, there will be no “perp walk.” However, he must agree as part of his voluntary appearance to go for the mandatory fingerprinting and mug shots. > [@chappachula](#): > > How is indicting a person different than just giving a subpeona to a person --who then must appear in court on a certain date.? (in which case nobody threatens handcuffing or arresting them) Subpoenas are used to compel witness appearances or documents production. They are not a replacement for criminal procedure for those accused of a crime. > [@chappachula](#): > > I assume that a person who is not a flight risk can simply be told that his trial begins on such and such a date (usually a year or more away). He then is told to get a lawyer and appear on that date, and till then, he is free, on bail or without paying bail. No. There is always a first appearance at arraignment. There may be some exceedingly rare cases when this is not done, but I’m not aware of any. > [@chappachula](#): > > So why is everyone screaming about “arresting” Trump tomorrow?, and erecting barricades to protect the courthouse, when Trump himself won’t even be there? Because even though Trump is not being “arrested,” he will have to make his first mandatory appearance as outlined above for the reasons already stated. Substantially ninja’d by @Procrustus, which is awesome, as IANAL and he is. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/199 "2023-03-20T18:56:40Z")
But that was an excellent precis of what will happen if he’s indicted. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2023, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/200 "2023-03-20T19:12:23Z")
Y’know … at the right price … I might be a buyer for an NFT of his mug shot 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=11)