# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 109
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2161 "2024-04-23T13:36:39Z")
> [@chappachula](#): > > This thread is full of optimistic anticipation that Trump is doomed, it’s all over for him, etc. Sure, we can gloat over some things: the strong evidence, the no-nonsense judge, the fact that Trump looks weary, etc. But it is all irrelevant if there is just one juror who disagrees with us smart Dopers. As with all such things the reality is in the middle somewhere. I wouldn’t start celebrating yet, but also jury nulification is not inevitable. He’ll _probably_ get convicted but a lot could go wrong, and always keep in mind this is the weakest of the cases against him. On the other hand the prosecution is very skilled and experienced and one of things they are very skilled at is choosing which jurors to get rid of in voi dire. Its all well amateurs such as us pointing to this or that juror as a bit dodgy but they decided not to keep those jurors in the jury and they know what they are doing ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2162 "2024-04-23T13:46:06Z")
Voir dire is/was probably a high wire act with complex calculus, but … If Trump gets convicted, and we/they can point to a jury that was NOT all “pointy-headed, NYT-reading, NPR listening Manhattan liberals,” that will have a bit of heft. Would that save the inevitable MAGA meltdown? Of course not. But that’s just never going to be our audience for changing minds. “You can’t reason a person _out of_ a belief that they didn’t use reason to hold in the first place.” – [Paraphrasing] Jonathan Swift ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2163 "2024-04-23T14:04:46Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Last night on Meidas Touch they showed a graphic of where jurors got their news from. When I saw that juror #2 gets their news exclusively from X and Truth Social, I became deeply concerned. I can’t imagine why the prosecution allowed this juror to slip through. But I didn’t hear any of their voir dire questions. I know I’m engaging in yet more baseless speculation here, but I’d put my faith in the fact that (a) prosecutors in this case know what they’re doing, and (b) this sort of juror, if these allegations are true, is likely not the sharpest knife in drawer, and even if they’re inclined to side with Trump, could likely be swayed by the smarter professionals on the jury. Having one or two jurors inclined to believe that Trump is innocent is not necessarily the end of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2164 "2024-04-23T14:10:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > I’d put my faith in the fact that (a) prosecutors in this case know what they’re doing, Having that faith is pretty much the best any of us can do that weren’t present to witness the voir dire process. The prosecution team undoubtedly has centuries of collective experience among them picking juries. At the same time there’s the old lawyer’s adage that while you can’t win a case during the jury selection phase of a trial, you can certainly lose one. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2165 "2024-04-23T14:13:18Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Having that faith is pretty much the best any of us can do that weren’t present to witness the voir dire process. At some point, those of us who desire a return to the days when the government actually functioned in a relatively non-partisan fashion have to decide to trust the institutions of government to do that functioning. If even we lose “faith” in the system, then the system will be well and truly dead. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2166 "2024-04-23T14:44:33Z")
Re: The gag order hearing this morning: > “You’re losing all credibility with the court,” judge tells Trump attorney Defense is trying to bullshit the judge that Trump is only reposting what others have already posted. The judge catches him in a blatant lie. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2167 "2024-04-23T14:44:53Z")
The judge is destroying Trump’s attorney right now. He keeps asking for specific examples of some of the assertions and the lawyer isn’t able to do so. The judge wants Trump to testify under oath that he didn’t think he was violating anything. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2168 "2024-04-23T14:46:35Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The judge wants Trump to testify under oath that he didn’t think he was violating anything. I’m not sure what the point of that would be. Trump could testify truthfully that he didn’t think. Full stop. Is it a defense if you’re too stupid to understand the gag order? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2169 "2024-04-23T14:47:06Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > When I saw that juror #2 gets their news exclusively from X and Truth Social, I became deeply concerned. This doesn’t mean a ton regarding this particular juror, but: On another message board, there is a contingent of members who are both (a) demonstrably liberal, and (b) believe Twitter is one of the best places from which to get news because of the wide breadth of voices and because of the immediacy. They commonly say things like “_Sure, you have to apply critical thinking to the sources, but it’s not hard to curate a reasonable spectrum of voices to keep you informed._” Some of these same board members also make it a point to visit conservative media sites to “_report from behind enemy lines_”. I can see someone of this mindset using Truth Social this way. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2170 "2024-04-23T14:50:02Z")
It allows the Judge to directly question Mr. Trump - and then the Judge can determine Mr. Trump’s credibility directly - otherwise all he has to go on is the attorney’s statements about Mr. Trump’s ‘intentions’ - which I believe you would call hearsay. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2171 "2024-04-23T14:52:39Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Is it a defense if you’re too stupid to understand the gag order? At that point, I would imagine that the judge could “suggest” that in future Trump check in with his lawyers if he’s confused. Then, if he violates the gag order without his lawyer’s OK, punish Trump, if he violates WITH his lawyer’s OK, then punish his lawyer. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2172 "2024-04-23T14:54:25Z")
The judge is reserving his decision on the gag order. Short break and then court will go from 11am to 2pm straight through. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2173 "2024-04-23T14:57:40Z")
Translation: three hour power-snooze for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2174 "2024-04-23T14:58:28Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Last night on Meidas Touch they showed a graphic of where jurors got their news from. When I saw that juror #2 gets their news exclusively from X and Truth Social, I became deeply concerned. I never heard of your news source. Here’s what [Reuters says:](https://www.reuters.com/legal/who-are-12-jurors-donald-trumps-hush-money-trial-new-york-2024-04-22/) > [@](#): > > JUROR 2: > > An investment banker who lives with a spouse in Hell’s Kitchen in Midtown Manhattan, Juror 2 has a master’s degree in business administration and gets most of their news from the social media platform X. The juror follows former Trump lawyer and prosecution witness Michael Cohen on social media, as well as Mueller She Wrote, a popular anti-Trump account. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2175 "2024-04-23T14:59:22Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > He keeps asking for specific examples of some of the assertions and the lawyer isn’t able to do so. So we’re finally going to find out who these “people” that keep “saying” all these things are? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2176 "2024-04-23T15:04:36Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > if he violates WITH his lawyer’s OK, then punish his lawyer. Wouldn’t you punish Trump _and_ his lawyer? “My lawyer said it was okay” only goes so far as a defense, much in the same way that if your accountant fucks up your tax returns you’re still liable. > [@Joey\_P](#): > > So we’re finally going to find out who these “people” that keep “saying” all these things are? [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6z63JEWQAIN6XL?format=jpg&name=900x900) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E6z63JEWQAIN6XL?format=jpg&name=900x900) ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2177 "2024-04-23T15:09:48Z")
This was the graphic that was shown on Meidas Touch. I believe the source was originally the NY Times [Joshua Benton on X: “Where the Trump jurors say they get their news. Amazing marker of how far the NYC tabloids have fallen: Only 1 of the 18 read the @nypost, and zero read the @NYDailyNews. https://t.co/9AaEo7M9Hq https://t.co/0dhK1hs8XT” / X (twitter.com)](https://twitter.com/jbenton/status/1781448539123421223) ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2178 "2024-04-23T15:10:36Z")
Why would the judge want to reserve his decision? ---
**Author:** ![Frazzled](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frazzled/32/3368_2.png) [@Frazzled](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frazzled)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2179 "2024-04-23T15:11:02Z")
I wanted to ask the same thing - as well as what that means? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2024, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2180 "2024-04-23T15:11:24Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > juror #2 gets their news exclusively from X and Truth Social > [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > [@Cardigan](#): > > > > Last night on Meidas Touch they showed a graphic of where jurors got their news from. When I saw that juror #2 gets their news exclusively from X and Truth Social, I became deeply concerned. > > I never heard of your news source. Here’s what [Reuters says:](https://www.reuters.com/legal/who-are-12-jurors-donald-trumps-hush-money-trial-new-york-2024-04-22/) > > > [@](#): > > > > JUROR 2: > > > > An investment banker who lives with a spouse in Hell’s Kitchen in Midtown Manhattan, Juror 2 has a master’s degree in business administration and gets most of their news from the social media platform X. The juror follows former Trump lawyer and prosecution witness Michael Cohen on social media, as well as Mueller She Wrote, a popular anti-Trump account. FWIW, here’s a link to the graphic the Meidas Touch podcast likely referenced. The source of the graphic is the _New York Times_. > [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=108) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=110)