# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 146
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2901 "2024-05-04T14:28:33Z")
They could just say nothing. Why support his lies and BS? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2902 "2024-05-04T14:34:27Z")
In order to keep the job and – maybe – get paid? ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2903 "2024-05-04T14:45:35Z")
“I can change him!” ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2904 "2024-05-04T14:45:50Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > a general rule Seems like a lot of general rules and best practices go right out the window once you decide to represent Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2905 "2024-05-04T14:48:02Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > When Trump was saying that the gag order was preventing him from testifying, I thought his lawyer was nodding in agreement. _He_ had to know that was untrue, so why nod? As we saw with Alina Habba, Trump’s lawyer’s aren’t necessarily playing to the court or the jury they’re dancing to Trump’s tune. _He_ is their primary audience and the person they want to please. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2906 "2024-05-04T14:50:02Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > As we saw with Alina Habba, Trump’s lawyer’s aren’t necessarily playing to the court or the jury they’re dancing to Trump’s tune. _He_ is their primary audience and the person they want to please. Yeah, it just felt so unethical. Foolish, I know. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2907 "2024-05-04T14:56:29Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > In order to keep the job and – maybe – get paid? He’s an idiot if he didn’t insist on a large retainer up front. Trump is a master of coming up with reasons to stiff people on payment. The examples are too numerous to recount. Just recently I read about a contractor who installed something for him like large windows in one of his buildings, insisting on two-thirds payment up front. Of course Trump never paid the last third, coming up with some bullshit reason he didn’t like the installation even though everything was fine up to that point. It put the company out of business. This is a pattern with Trump. He is a shyster and a thief who doesn’t pay his bills. > **[USA TODAY exclusive: Hundreds allege Donald Trump doesn’t pay his bills](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/)** > > Among those who say billionaire didn't pay: dishwashers, painters, waiters [https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/trump-small-business-owners/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/trump-small-business-owners/index.html) He does the same thing with his lawyers. If they lose the case he says they didn’t do a good job so he refuses to pay them. If they win the case, he says it was so easy that a monkey could have done it, so he again refuses to pay. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2908 "2024-05-04T16:16:34Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Yeah, it just felt so unethical. Foolish, I know. If you see enough lawyers in action you will perceive that at least a portion of their eforts are aimed at impressing their client, rather than the decision maker. “Look how hard I’m working to earn the fee you’re paying me (even though your case has ZERO chance of winning!)” Not sure why that would rise to the level of being considered “unethical.” ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2909 "2024-05-04T16:29:53Z")
_Shrug_. I’d be comfortable with my lawyer saying “My client believes the gag order has been put in place to stop them from testifying”, but not “The gag order stops Donald Trump from testifying.” Just my opinion, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2910 "2024-05-04T16:30:07Z")
His lawyers could also be going along with it as part of their efforts to persuade him not to testify. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2911 "2024-05-04T16:43:53Z")
I think we’re reading way the hell too much into a nod. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2912 "2024-05-04T16:55:27Z")
Ayup. He may have had a crick in his neck. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2913 "2024-05-04T16:56:31Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > When Trump was saying that the gag order was preventing him from testifying, I thought his lawyer was nodding in agreement. _He_ had to know that was untrue, so why nod? Nervous tik, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2914 "2024-05-04T17:53:58Z")
Hence the reimbursement to cohen being odd. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2915 "2024-05-04T18:14:13Z")
Question: If the retainer has been used up, and the client doesn’t pony up more cash, can a lawyer simply bail in the middle of trial, telling the judge, “Hey, I ain’t working for free, here!”. Or is he obligated to stick it out once he has started, due to some kind of lawyerin’ law-guy thing? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2916 "2024-05-04T18:52:42Z")
It’s complicated. Client has a legal obligation to pay, but the lawyer has a professional obligation not to withdraw in circumstances that would prejudice the client. In litigation contexts, the consent of the court may be required. Here’s a summary from the New York City Bar: > [@](#): > > **Q. When a client fails to pay its legal bills, may a lawyer withdraw from the representation, and if so, how? Can the lawyer retain the file until the bills are paid? Even after bills are settled, may a lawyer refuse the client access to portions of the file?** > > A. General summary. A lawyer generally may withdraw from the representation when the client fails to pay the lawyer’s fees, but must take steps to the extent reasonably practicable to avoid foreseeable prejudice to the rights of the client. See Rule 1.16(c)(5), (e). In litigation proceedings, court rules commonly require consent of court before withdrawing. The exercise of retaining liens has been approved as an ethical matter, but their precise contours are questions of law, not ethical command. The client is presumptively afforded full access to the attorney’s entire file, with narrow exceptions. As always, IANAUSL, and I could be wrong. Talk to a lawyer in your own state if you really need advice on the issue. > **[Frequently Asked Legal Ethics Questions | New York City Bar Association](https://www.nycbar.org/member-committee-career-services/ethics-overview-ethics-panel/frequently-asked-legal-ethics-questions/#withdrawalandretention)** > > A review of the inquiries made to the Committee’s Ethics Hotline has shown that certain legal ethics questions occur more \[…\] ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2917 "2024-05-04T18:57:55Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > “Look how hard I’m working to earn the fee you’re paying me (even though your case has ZERO chance of winning!)” > > Not sure why that would rise to the level of being considered “unethical.” Would you be happier with an adjective like “dishonest”? ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2918 "2024-05-04T21:04:04Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I think we’re reading way the hell too much into a nod. Yeah. He’s been out there for who knows how many of Trump’s rants by now, all saying the same thing over and over. By this point, he’s probably not even listening, just nodding along and thinking about what to have for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2919 "2024-05-04T21:16:04Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > It’s complicated. Client has a legal obligation to pay, but the lawyer has a professional obligation not to withdraw in circumstances that would prejudice the client. In litigation contexts, the consent of the court may be required. Yep. when I did criminal defense work we were very firm on getting 100% of all potential fees up front. Most defendants are not “good for it” after you start working the case. And never after the case is over. Once you’re in, you may not be able to withdraw, and even if you can, it’s a hassle. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/2920 "2024-05-04T21:56:53Z")
Who is left to testify do you think? Obviously Cohen, McDougal and Daniels. Probably Kellyanne Conway. Not Trump. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=145) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=147)