# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 165
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3281 "2024-05-09T13:13:20Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > By inquiring, under oath and subject to the penalties of perjury, whether or not she is acting as spokeperson for Trump in return for any form of promised remuneration or benefit. > > And maybe further inquiring how she can come to believe things that are so obviously untrue. As with the 2020 “election fraud”, the things that wingnuts say on Fox News are usually radically different than what they say when confronted in court. Freedom of speech matters, but oftentimes truth matters even more. Criminal courts have jurisdiction over individuals when they are charged with an offence, either after indictment by a grand jury or whatever other process is set out by law. They also have jurisdiction when a person is subpoenaed. When a person is subject to the court’s jurisdiction by either of those processes, they may potentially be subject to contempt proceedings, for disobeying the court’s process, disrupting, and so on. There is also a type of contempt that goes by various names, for actions committed outside of court. I have no idea how that works in the US and in the different states. However, when a person is charged with contempt, the onus, as with other criminal counts, is on the state to prove it. What the criminal courts don’t have is a power to call people in, put them under oath, and interrogate them. There is a historical precedent for that type of proceeding, called the “oath ex officio” or the great oath. It was used by the ecclesiastical courts in England, and by the Court of Star Chamber. The abuse of the oath ex officio was one of the contributing factors in the political crises that led to the English Civil Wars. The abuse of the oath led to the abolition of Star Chamber in 1640, and the abolition of the Court of High Commission (also called the Court of Commissioners for Ecclesiastical Causes), originally in 1641, and then finally in the Bill of Rights, 1688, after James II revived it. The abuse of the oath ex officio was one of the contributing factors to the development of the legal and constitutional right to silence, which Ms Habba could invoke if called to court. > **[Ex officio oath](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_officio_oath)** > > The ex officio oath developed in the first half of the 17th century (1600 to 1650), and was used as a form of coercion, persecution, and forcible self-incrimination in the religious trials of that era. It took the form of a religious oath made by the accused prior to questioning by the Star Chamber, to answer truthfully all questions that might be asked.\[citation needed\] It gave rise to what became known as the cruel trilemma where the accused would find themselves trapped between a breach Out... > **[Court of High Commission](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_High_Commission)** > > The Court of High Commission was the supreme ecclesiastical court in England, from the inception of King Henry VIII's Act of Supremacy in 1534 to 1689, with periods of time where there was no court activity, like in 1641, when Parliament disbanded the court with the Triennial Act. John Whitgift, the Archbishop of Canterbury, obtained increased powers for the court by the 1580s. He proposed and had passed the Seditious Sectaries Act 1593, making Puritanism an offence. > The court reached the height... [https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th\_century/england.asp](https://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/england.asp) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3282 "2024-05-09T13:14:11Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > So are you saying that the state can put Trump in jail without proving he breached the court order? Did they prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump violated his gag order the previous 10 times? It seems to be that contempt of court is not held to the same high standard of a normal criminal conviction. But I am admittedly no legal expert. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3283 "2024-05-09T13:16:11Z")
Yes, by putting the twuths that Trump issued under his own name in his personal Twuth Social account before the court. Public admissions against interest by an accused are strong evidence against the accused. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3284 "2024-05-09T13:30:37Z")
trump has given his usual remarks. he said good morning, and welcome(?). then went on a rant about biden and israel. the judge has stopped the photo taking in the court room when a photographer stepped out of bounds. ms daniels is back on the stand this morning. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3285 "2024-05-09T13:34:31Z")
Thanks for the update. I’m not going to keep discussing contempt for the rest of the day; I’d rather read updates on the trial itself, which is the point of these proceedings. I appreciate you and the others posting about what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3286 "2024-05-09T13:37:58Z")
here we go, from cnn live updates: Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger is asking Judge Juan Merchan to preclude Donald Trump’s lawyer from asking Stormy Daniels about a past arrest. Hoffinger says the battery arrest related to an incident with her ex-husband did not result in a conviction. The judge is denying it. He says, “Anyone can be arrested.” “That doesn’t prove a thing,” Merchan adds. Defense attorney Susan Necheles says she would ask instead if her husband had ever accused her of battery. Merchan says, “it’s not probative of anything.” Stormy Daniels is back on the witness stand to resume her testimony today. Daniels walked to the witness stand without glancing over at Trump’s table. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3287 "2024-05-09T13:52:14Z")
Okay we didn’t need to know all the intimate details of the relations Daniels and Trump had. However now the defence are trying to show Daniels was trying to get as much money as possible by whatever means possible. Even if they ably demonstrate this how does it affect the charge against Trump? The allegation is that he paid her off and then falsified the records. What does it matter what motivated Daniels to accept the payment? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3288 "2024-05-09T14:04:02Z")
Stormy Daniels maintains she took the nondisclosure agreement “to get my story protected by a paper trail so my family wouldn’t get hurt when the story came out.” “I wanted the truth to be printed with some paper trail,” she says. Trump attorney Susan Necheles asks Daniels that even though she would have gotten her story out with Slate, she went with the NDA. “This was a better alternative,” Daniels says. Necheles challenged her that there would’ve been a paper trail if she published her story instead of signing an NDA and accepting a settlement. “With a target on my back and my family’s,” Daniels says in response. to fiendish astronaut, it doesn’t matter to the charges. they are trying to muddy daniels so the jury will not feel sympathy or believe her. ms daniels is not the one on trial. she did not have anything to do with the criminal conspiracy. this cross is all to make trump feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3289 "2024-05-09T14:10:16Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > this cross is all to make trump feel better. Thanks. Okay so Trump’s defence are having to please both the jury and the defendant at the same time. Got it. That can’t be good for Trump. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3290 "2024-05-09T14:10:30Z")
The purpose is to create doubt that she’s being truthful. If her goal was to get money from him, then maybe she made it all up. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3291 "2024-05-09T14:12:12Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Even if they ably demonstrate this how does it affect the charge against Trump? The allegation is that he paid her off and then falsified the records. What does it matter what motivated Daniels to accept the payment? I was wondering this exact thing. Essentially, isn’t Daniels’ testimony pretty much unrelated to the prosecution’s overall case? It also seems like the prosecution could have made their case just as well without calling Daniels to testify at all. Someone on CNN yesterday or the day before opined something like “_Having Stormy Daniels testify assures the jury that the prosecution is laying it all out there and hiding nothing_”, but that just strikes as being super-thin reasoning. Jurors can’t just hear evidence and decide the case strictly on the “boring” machinations, paperwork, and math? ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3292 "2024-05-09T14:14:15Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > If her goal was to get money from him, then maybe she made it all up. But nobody’s contesting that Trump paid her right? If Trump is supposed to have paid her off even after not having sex with her then doesn’t that dash any hope that the defence could claim Trump was merely paying her to avoid embarrassing his wife? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3293 "2024-05-09T14:15:56Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The purpose is to create doubt that she’s being truthful. If her goal was to get money from him, **then maybe she made it all up**. … which is a zillion miles from the charge facing Trump. Someone make this make sense. Maybe it all comes down to “_The defense feels they can count on at least one, if not more, of the jurors not being Spock-like critical thinkers, and will thus be swayed by that squirrel running around over yonder._” The Daniels’ cross is basically The Chewbacca Defense? ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3294 "2024-05-09T14:17:43Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The purpose is to create doubt that she’s being truthful. If her goal was to get money from him, then maybe she made it all up Conversely, Trump’s willingness to pay – particularly when viewed in the context of his infamous parsimony – tends to lend the veneer of truth to Ms. Daniels’s story. This one feels like quite the needle to thread for the Defense. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3295 "2024-05-09T14:22:10Z")
from cnn live updates: Trump attorney Susan Necheles is now asking Stormy Daniels if she eventually wanted to publicly announce she had sex with Trump. “No. Nobody would ever want to publicly say that. I wanted to publicly defend myself,” Daniels testifies “You wanted to make more money, right?” Necheles asks. “No, that’s why I did 60 Minutes for free,” Daniels responds. Trump attorney Susan Necheles is asking Stormy Daniels about her appearance on reality show “The Surreal Life.” Necheles asked her to confirm that the story she wanted to share was that she “supposedly” had sex with Donald Trump. “It was the full story about my life and what I went through because of this,” Daniels answers. my thought, we are now in the slut shaming part of the cross. asking about relationships on the documentary/reality show. i believe that this will not go over well with the jury and the defence is starting to take on water. daniels is not going quietly and is starting to score points on necheles. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3296 "2024-05-09T14:23:13Z")
What are the chances the defense would have sent a subpoena to Daniels if the prosecution had not put her on? I am not sure she helps the prosecution, but maybe they wanted to avoid her being forced to be there by the other side? Stormy is harassed and bullied so bad on twitter. She stands up for herself and fights back with some pretty good snark. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3297 "2024-05-09T14:25:42Z")
The back-and-forth between Trump attorney Susan Necheles and Stormy Daniels continues. As one point in the exchange while being questioned about the $100,000 Daniels made from a documentary with NBC, Daniels says, “You’re trying to trick me into saying something that’s not entirely true.” necheles and daniels are now going back and forth over who and what she meant by “orange turd”. Trump attorney Susan Necheles wants to introduce another tweet where Stormy Daniels is responding to someone else’s tweet. Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger asked to approach the bench. The objection was sustained. Trump again was chatting with attorney Todd Blanche. “When Trump was indicted in this case, you celebrated on Twitter by repeatedly tweeting and pushing merchandise you were selling in your store right?” defense attorney Susan Necheles asks Stormy Daniels. “I tweeted about him being indicted, yes. People asked how they could support me so I tweeted the link to my store,” Daniels said. Nehecles is now showing the tweets to the jury she sent after the indictment, including the link to her store. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3298 "2024-05-09T14:28:09Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > The purpose is to create doubt that she’s being truthful. If her goal was to get money from him, then maybe she made it all up. Elsewhere on social media it is being claimed that she was “extorting” money from Trump by demanding money for her silence during the campaign. The differences between extortion and blackmail aside, it seems to me that in order for this to be true it would require both what she was claiming to be sufficiently credible to be taken seriously by the public and that Trump considered her going public with them to be damaging to the campaign…which would prove the prosecution’s case here. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3299 "2024-05-09T14:31:49Z")
Stormy Daniels confirms on the stand that she was drinking champagne celebrating Trump’s indictment. When Trump attorney Susan Necheles asks whether she’s selling items in her story about how she got the president indicted, Daniels responds, “I got President Trump indicted?” raising the inflection in her voice to sound surprised. Stormy Daniels turned a question around to highlight Donald Trump’s own efforts to sell merchandise based on his criminal indictment. “You’re celebrating the indictment by selling things from your store?” Necheles asks. “Not unlike Mr. Trump,” Daniels responds. As Stormy Daniels testifies about the merchandise she sold after Trump’s indictment, Trump is leaning forward on the defendant’s table. He’s got a frown on his face. we are now into the paranormal realm as ms daniels is asking about her “haunted house” in new orleans. “i’ve been making money as part of a ghost hunting team.” i don’t know if there are any ghost believers on the jury. the cnn team is just discombobulated. Trump attorney Susan Necheles is now going over Stormy Daniels’ venture to create a show about the paranormal. She asks Daniels if she has claimed her house in New Orleans is haunted. Daniels confirms the venture, adding they brought in experts. “It was a lot of interesting and unexplained activity,” she says. “A lot of the activity was completely debunked as a giant possum,” she adds with a laugh. Trump attorney Susan Necheles is asking whether Stormy Daniels plans to keep making money off of Trump. “I plan to continue to do my job and to fund my extraordinary legal bills,” Daniels says. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2024, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/3300 "2024-05-09T14:31:51Z")
So maybe he had to hide it because he was too embarrassed to admit he was the victim of extortion and that would damage his campaign and his brand? I’m not trying to advocate for Trump here I’m trying to think of the only thing that the defence might conceivably use to evade the charges. But I cannot see Trump agreeing to that tactic. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=164) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=166)