# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/421 "2023-03-25T15:17:31Z")
The problem is that Trump can’t _not_ threaten people and incite violence. So the rest of the world has to cater to that. (Happy cake day!) ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/422 "2023-03-25T15:18:10Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > If there’s a gag order, Trump is still free to campaign, pontificate, blather, bloviate about anything other than the trial, correct? Correct. Hundreds if not thousands of candidates manage to campaign without invoking stochastic terrorism in their speeches. If one does, it should be a threshold issue of disqualification, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/423 "2023-03-25T15:25:54Z")
Unless he violates it and demonstrates that he will continue to do so. Then he may find himself with more restrictions. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/424 "2023-03-25T15:57:50Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Then he may find himself with more restrictions. And who will enforce those…? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/425 "2023-03-25T16:01:02Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > If there’s a gag order, Trump is still free to campaign, pontificate, blather, bloviate about anything other than the trial, correct? Not sure I see any undue restrictions on his ability to campaign. I think the hypothetical was about after he violates a gag order and then they would need to be more heavy-handed. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/426 "2023-03-25T16:02:10Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > …they would need to be more heavy-handed. What would that look like? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/427 "2023-03-25T16:11:10Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > What would that look like ? Revoking bail, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/428 "2023-03-25T16:11:14Z")
If it comes down to it, the prison guards. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/429 "2023-03-25T17:26:20Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > And who will enforce those…? The courts, and the law enforcement agencies at their disposal. A judge will set a hearing to review conditions of bail/own recognizance release. If Trump fails to appear at the hearing, a warrant will be issued for his arrest. If he does appear, then the judge can revoke his bail/OR release or impose additional restrictions and/or sanctions. If he continues to disregard the judge’s orders, then off to home detention he goes after the above process is repeated. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/430 "2023-03-25T17:35:45Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > The problem is that Trump can’t _not_ threaten people and incite violence. I think I agree with this sentence. When TFG calls journalists “the enemy of the people,” he is threatening them, and, I think, inciting violence. I just went, for the first time, to Chat GTP and asked: > [@](#): > > How many times has Donald J. Trump said “the enemy of the people”? The response included this sentence: > [@](#): > > According to Factba.se, a website that tracks the speeches and statements of public figures, Donald Trump used the phrase “enemy of the people” in public statements at least 238 times during his presidency. I’ve read that Chat GPT is unreliable, and when I fried my own search on factba.se, I only got 65 hits. But, regardless of the exact frequency of that specific piece of nastiness, Trump isn’t likely capable of delivering a campaign speech that doesn’t include strongly implied threats of violence. Which means – if he is going to be stopped from making lightly veiled threats, he has been stopped from campaigning. > [@bobot](#): > > So the rest of the world has to cater to that. If you consider free speech for demagogues to be a form of catering, the rest of world doesn’t have to, but should. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/431 "2023-03-25T17:42:05Z")
Inciting violence or violating gag orders isn’t free speech for anyone but the demagogue though. No one else gets to get away with that and Trump shouldn’t either. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/432 "2023-03-25T17:43:00Z")
What does the defense know about the jury? I can certainly see a non-gagged Trump doxxing jurors and trying to get mobs to show up at their houses. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/433 "2023-03-25T17:54:14Z")
I just learned about anonymous juries. I’d never heard of them before, but one will be used in the case against Trump brought by E. Jean Carroll. > **[Judge rules jury in E. Jean Carroll case will be anonymous, citing Trump's...](https://lawandcrime.com/live-trials/e-jean-carroll-rape-suit/judge-rules-jury-in-e-jean-carroll-case-will-be-anonymous-citing-trumps-attacks-on-courts-judges-and-jurors/)** > > The jury determining whether Donald Trump raped E. Jean Carroll in the mid-1990s will be anonymous, a federal judge ruled on Thursday. I suspect we’re all going to be much more familiar with these over the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/434 "2023-03-25T18:20:31Z")
Gag orders are not uncommon in US criminal cases. If they’re consistent with the First Amendment for anyone else who is facing criminal charges, why should there be an exception for politicians who are facing criminal charges? Do politicians have stronger First Amendment rights than ordinary citizens? Especially since the reason for gag orders is to protect the fairness of the court process? And if Trump gets charged with something, that will definitely affect his ability to campaign. He will have court dates to attend, and possibly a trial. Courts will try to accommodate the schedules of accused persons, but in the end, the court sets the dates and the accused has to show up. If the court schedule conflicts with his campaign schedule, should he be able to get a year’s adjournment, because he’s a politician, while other people with busy lives have to come to court for their trials? Going down this road would establish that yes, certain people are above the law, even if they don’t hold any public office. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2023, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/435 "2023-03-25T21:22:55Z")
Does the Secret Service actually have any legal authority to override other law enforcement agencies, especially with regards to a protectee who isn’t a federal office holder? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/436 "2023-03-26T00:15:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Going down this road would establish that yes, certain people are above the law, even if they don’t hold any public office. Certain people are above the law because they are skillful criminals. Other people aren’t above the law, but should be: [Call to stop jailing pregnant women in England after baby dies in prison toilet](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/16/call-to-stop-jailing-pregnant-women-in-england-after-baby-dies-in-prison-toilet) Trump has gotten to age 76 without spending a day in jail. It could be that’s because he’s a law-abiding guy. After reading a critical few books about him, that’s not what I think. But then, someone like me, who only reads a book about DJT if it is critical, is probably not objective enough to be on his jury. Equal justice is a principle that should be have some weight. But having free elections, where voters can hear what the candidates say without interference, is another principle that should have weight. The two principles can conflict and need to be balanced against each other, just like child welfare needs to be balanced (much more than it is today) against equal justice. I predict that prosecutors, and even judges, are likely to do some such balancing with Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/437 "2023-03-26T00:33:19Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Certain people are above the law because they are skillful criminals. Is that what you think that means? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/438 "2023-03-26T01:11:20Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Does the Secret Service actually have any legal authority to override other law enforcement agencies, especially with regards to a protectee who isn’t a federal office holder? I doubt it. If we knew all the details, this might be close to an example of them acting as if their scope of duties included running interference with local law enforcement: [A college student claiming to be the boyfriend of President Bush’s daughter Jenna was arrested at a fraternity party and released several hours later to a man whom deputies believed to be a Secret Service agent, a sheriff said Thursday.](https://www.smdailyjournal.com/news/local/jenna-bushs-boyfriend-arrested-at-frat-party/article_25331db4-2e82-5463-9ce1-2a998b615c2a.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/439 "2023-03-26T01:45:19Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I just learned about anonymous juries. I’d never heard of them before, but one will be used in the case against Trump brought by E. Jean Carroll. Huh, I had assumed that anonymous juries were the default. I mean, juries by their nature often interact with people who might try to get revenge on them, or influence them through intimidation and threats, or the like. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2023, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/440 "2023-03-26T01:55:23Z")
A regular jury will have some of their details known by the parties and anyone sitting in the courtroom that day. However, their information is not permitted to be published by media, nor can they be photographed or filmed. In the courtrooms where I worked, the prospective jurors were called by name to be seated for voir dire. In the case of an anonymous jury, no one knows who they are: Not the public, not the lawyers – and definitely not the defendant. Obviously they can’t be photographed or filmed. AIUI, they are also fully sequestered, meaning kept in a nearby hotel and bused with security to the courthouse each day for proceedings. It was a rarity for jurors to have any problems with defendants. Until now, anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=23)