# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 227
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4521 "2024-05-23T18:52:28Z")
It’s one of the few bits of potentially verifiable examples where it was discussed. Almost certainly it was discussed elsewhere but Trump famously hates leaving paper trails. But the idea that the whole case hinges on this one piece of evidence is guesswork on the part of news organizations who need to keep eyeballs engaged. At the end of the day, the jury itself decides what is sufficient or not to make the prosecution’s case. The lawyers on both sides can only hope to provide or prevent as much evidence as possible to bolster their case. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4522 "2024-05-23T18:54:07Z")
This is where the judge’s instructions will be critical. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4523 "2024-05-23T18:58:18Z")
For anybody who hasn’t heard the infamous audio recording, surreptitiously made _by_ Cohen, and including Cohen _and_ Trump discussing the payment(s), I think it’s worth the 2m47s: > **[LISTEN: Michael Cohen audio recording reveals Trump talking Karen McDougal...](https://www.nbcnews.com/video/listen-michael-cohen-recording-of-trump-talking-karen-mcdougal-payment-210816069576)** > > Audio secretly recorded by Michael Cohen reveals Donald Trump in 2016 discussing a payment to Karen McDougal before he was elected president. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4524 "2024-05-23T19:16:28Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > Is this infamous phone call the one and only time Trump was advised about the payoff? Is that why it’s such a big hairy deal? Not at all. Cohen testified that he kept in regular contact with Trump, and updated him immediately whenever he did something (because he wanted to get credit). Why did this one call become a point of emphasis? Because it was the _one time_ that the defense had something to challenge Cohen on. They were able to tie _one_ instance of a phone call to a text message conversation about something else. And so they harped on it. I believe the term is “nothingburger”. It hardly invalidates the DA’s case, or even really shows that Cohen’s testimony isn’t credible. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4525 "2024-05-23T19:32:18Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > But the idea that the whole case hinges on this one piece of evidence is guesswork on the part of news organizations who need to keep eyeballs engaged. At the end of the day, the jury itself decides what is sufficient or not to make the prosecution’s case. The lawyers on both sides can only hope to provide or prevent as much evidence as possible to bolster their case. I’ve got it on good authority, Alina Habba, that Merchan should have dismissed the case after the prosecution and defense rested on the grounds that the prosecution didn’t prove their case. As a lawyer, I think it’s safe to say she knows more about these things than either one of us. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4526 "2024-05-23T19:36:49Z")
Every word she says is to please an audience of one. I take no more stock in her word than that of the village idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4527 "2024-05-23T19:40:27Z")
I think it’s safe to say my pet goldfish knows more about these things than Alina Habba. /s ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4528 "2024-05-23T19:53:07Z")
Well, certainly the majority of people of all political persuasions would agree she possesses a law degree ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4529 "2024-05-23T20:04:54Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I believe the term is “nothingburger”. It hardly invalidates the DA’s case, or even really shows that Cohen’s testimony isn’t credible I wouldn’t say that. Both this and the “grossing up” testimony aren’t nothingburgers. They are legitimate ways the defense has scored points and taken a bit of credibility off cohen as a witness. But on the other hand they aren’t some kind of bombshell that will surely get Trump off. Especially as I think they have been loss somewhat in the barrage of defense claims, particularly as they were followed by the Costello debacle. Though we still have summation to come, maybe the defense will dial it back, just focus on the election interference bit of the case and just emphasize how Cohen’s credibility is fairly important to proving that, and then frame these things in that context. At which point they do become more relevant IMO But we’ll see IANAL of course ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4530 "2024-05-23T20:06:24Z")
For now. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4531 "2024-05-23T20:08:23Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > So it would have to be the prosecutor reading the script during summation. Which doesn’t sound very compelling, even if it was allowed. They should come up with a good introduction, and practice to deliver it in exactly 90 seconds. And then point that out, after they finish. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4532 "2024-05-23T20:15:27Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > For now. I’ll give her credit for not losing her degree. Her standing before the Bar Association and qualification to practice law, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Kelby2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ebca7d/32.png) [@Kelby2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby2)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4533 "2024-05-23T21:06:09Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > > > But the idea that the whole case hinges on this one piece of evidence is guesswork on the part of news organizations who need to keep eyeballs engaged. At the end of the day, the jury itself decides what is sufficient or not to make the prosecution’s case. The lawyers on both sides can only hope to provide or prevent as much evidence as possible to bolster their case. > > I’ve got it on good authority, Alina Habba, that Merchan should have dismissed the case after the prosecution and defense rested on the grounds that the prosecution didn’t prove their case. As a lawyer, I think it’s safe to say she knows more about these things than either one of us. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2024, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4534 "2024-05-23T22:31:11Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > I believe the term is “nothingburger”. It hardly invalidates the DA’s case, or even really shows that Cohen’s testimony isn’t credible > > I wouldn’t say that. Both this and the “grossing up” testimony aren’t nothingburgers. They are legitimate ways the defense has scored points and taken a bit of credibility off cohen as a witness. I just don’t think they do. The fact that Cohen was texting with Schiller about some annoying kid does not in any way mean that Cohen couldn’t, or didn’t, also speak with Trump about the payoff. There’s simply no reason to infer that (unless you are convinced that Cohen can’t talk about more than one thing on a phone call, or that 90 seconds was too short to have the discussion; neither are realistic). And the “grossing up” calculation is similarly weak. Cohen wasn’t caught in a lie : when asked if he kept some of the money that he said was a fee for a client, he freely admitted to it. Does it make him look greedy or sleazy? Yeah, but that was already the case. The DA isn’t claiming that he’s an honest broker; instead, they are saying that his _explanation_ of what transpired best fits the known facts of the case. So I don’t really see how the defense managed to discredit his story. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4535 "2024-05-24T00:29:12Z")
> [@Cardigan](#): > > Having done radio dramas for a number of years I can tell you that a script using 12 point font with double spacing and one inch margins takes about 60 seconds to read. I was thinking the same thing only television. With today’s 42-minute “hour” dramas, 90 seconds is 3.5% of _everything_ you want to accomplish in that episode. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4536 "2024-05-24T00:53:41Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I was thinking the same thing only television. With today’s 42-minute “hour” dramas, 90 seconds is 3.5% of _everything_ you want to accomplish in that episode. Also consider that 90 seconds is long enough for 6 commercials. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4537 "2024-05-24T02:02:22Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Also consider that 90 seconds is long enough for 6 commercials I assume you do not watch much broadcast TV. There were a couple of commercials I actually timed, and they were over 4 minutes long. For a single, continuous ad. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4538 "2024-05-24T02:10:32Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I assume you do not watch much broadcast TV. There were a couple of commercials I actually timed, and they were over 4 minutes long. For a single, continuous ad. (Ad guy here) Long ads are common for certain categories, particularly prescription drugs, Medicare supplemental insurance, and direct-response advertising (i.e., the companies selling gadgets). But, for most categories, the 15-second ad is very common now, and has been for years. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4539 "2024-05-24T02:41:21Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > But, for most categories, the 15-second ad is very common now, and has been for years. Aside from the categories you mentioned, I see commercials that are 30 seconds long, and have been forever. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2024, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4540 "2024-05-24T02:48:35Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Aside from the categories you mentioned, I see commercials that are 30 seconds long, and have been forever This is true; my earlier post wasn’t well-worded. For most categories, advertising on network TV broadcasts, the vast majority of ads are either :15s or :30s. (My attempts to google which of those two is the most common is yielding conflicting information.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=226) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=228)