# Manhattan Prosecutors file criminal charges for Trump re Stormy Daniels case - ongoing discussion here (Guilty on all 34 counts, May 30, 2024) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [March 9, 2023, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953 "2023-03-09T22:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 233
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4641 "2024-05-28T15:27:08Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > They have not so far mentioned the “she made it up” theory Yes they did. > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > “This case is about documents. It’s a paper case. This case is not about an encounter with Stormy Daniels 18 years ago,” Blanche says. > > “An encounter that President Trump has unequivocally and repeatedly denied occurred,” he adds. Meanwhile… > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Blanche is also arguing that Michael Cohen did the legal work in 2017 because there was a retainer agreement, pointing to the other retainer agreement Cohen had as a consultant in 2017. Blanche specifically notes that Cohen was paid $100,000 for six meetings with Novartis. > > “That’s how retainer agreements work,” Blanche says, nothing he was “on call” for the company “just like he was on call with President Trump.” To believe this, you have to believe that Trump - despite stiffing Cohen on his bonus, and despite deciding not to even consider Cohen for a White House position- agreed to keep Cohen ‘on call’ at a salary of $35,000 a month, which was _more_ than he was being paid when he was at the Trump Org. And Cohen did just a few things for the family that year. Meanwhile, Cohen (if you believe this) didn’t bother to get repaid for the $130,000 he laid out. > [@eschereal](#): > > the defense will have an opportunity to present a rebuttal to the prosecution’s summation, right? Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4642 "2024-05-28T15:29:44Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > Trump attorney Todd Blanche says it’s “preposterous” to think Trump and David Pecker, the former CEO of American Media Inc., believed stories in the National Enquirer could determine the result of the 2016 election. > > “The idea, even if there was something wrong with it, the idea that sophisticated people like President Trump and David Pecker believed that positive stories in the National Enquirer could influence the 2016 election is preposterous,” he argues. > > He notes the circulation of the National Enquirer at the time was 350,000 > > “Millions and millions of people voted in the 2016 election, so the idea that they really thought that this meeting in 2015 at Trump Tower would ultimately influence the election makes no sense,” Blanche says. > > Blanche also tells the jury to remember that the National Enquirer usually repurposed stories from other outlets. > > “The idea that the National Enquirer could criminally influence the election by republishing stories that had already been out there in other forms should make you shake your head. It makes no sense,” Blanche says. Then why do the favorable stories and the “catch-and-kill” if they thought it wouldn’t make any difference? ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4643 "2024-05-28T15:34:18Z")
Also, it’s not so much the number of issues which are sold, but the National Enquirer is seen by millions as they passively wait for their groceries to be rung up. They may not buy the issue, but if a headline says, “TRUMP GOOD,” they’re going to see it, and it may influence them in a more covert manner. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4644 "2024-05-28T15:35:13Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Except, the defense will have an opportunity to present a rebuttal to the prosecution’s summation, right? The party with the burden of proof always goes last. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4645 "2024-05-28T15:37:17Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > “The idea that the National Enquirer could criminally influence the election by republishing stories that had already been out there in other forms should make you shake your head. **It makes no sense** ,” Blanche says. [my bold] Oh, no! Blanche is using the Chewbacca defense: Legal Eagle: [Real Lawyer Reacts to South Park Chewbacca Defense](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa-Z5QCZQNg) > Why does Chewbacca live on Endor?! IT. DOES. NOT. MAKE. SENSE. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4646 "2024-05-28T15:39:29Z")
I imagine the prosecution said their summation will take 4 and a half hours because they expect to have to hack through a jungle of objections from the defense. After all, the defense has refused to stipulate to nearly every piece of evidence, why would they not be objecting every few minutes during the prosecution’s summation? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4647 "2024-05-28T15:41:00Z")
cnn update: As Trump attorney Todd Blanche delivers the defense team’s closing argument, some jurors are intently watching him. Other jurors are glancing down at the monitors where the testimony and documents are displayed. A few seem to be looking around more. Trump attorney Todd Blanche argues that Michael Cohen also lied about conversations with Trump related to the Karen McDougal deal. Blanche highlights ex-National Enquirer publisher David Pecker’s testimony that Trump told him, “I don’t buy stories” and Cohen saying Trump told him, “no problem I will take care of it.” > “Which one is true?” Blanche asks. “You know that the Trump Organization, President Trump, Michael Cohen never paid Mr. Pecker a penny for the McDougal stories. There’s no dispute about it.” This was the conversation Trump had with Pecker in summer of 2016 over the phone while Pecker was meeting with investors at Chatham. Blanche alleges that Cohen made up his testimony about a lunch with Pecker in September 2016 when Cohen said Pecker told him, “I need to get this money back.” Blanche tells the jury, ““That lunch did not happen. Cohen made it up.” Blanche suggests that even if Pecker just forgot about the lunch, he argues there was no other proof that the lunch happened, like a credit card receipt. Defense attorney Todd Blanche has turned to the 2016 recording Michael Cohen made of Trump which he said he taped to prove to David Pecker that he would be paid back. He argued that Karen McDougal was not discussed in the recording. Blanche played a few seconds of the recording with Trump. Rhona Graff, Trump’s former longtime assistant, can be heard in the recording. Blanche points out that no questions were asked of Graff related to the recording. Trump’s defense attorney focused on Cohen telling Trump that it was “all the stuff” on the call. Blanche references the concern about buying the documents that Pecker supposedly had of Trump. “It was extremely important at the time to buy that box of stuff,” Blanche says. “There’s no discussion of Karen McDougal. They’re talking about buying the stuff. Listen the government claims on the transcript there’s a word President Trump says 150. Listen to the recording, see if you hear 150 or see if you have no idea what you’re hearing at all.” “If it is really 150 said. Why is the next thing you hear from Cohen saying we’ll have to pay him something?” Blanche asks. “Bottom line is there is no doubt this recording discussed AMI and Mr. Pecker. There is a lot of doubt that it discussed Karen McDougal.” Trump attorney Todd Blanche notes that Trump didn’t know what Michael Cohen was talking about when he talked about “financing” on the call. “President Trump clearly has no idea what he’s talking about. This conversation, Mr. Cohen and President Trump are literally talking past each other about what’s going on,” Blanche argues. Attorney Todd Blanche zeroes in on the end of the recording when Donald Trump says “check” before the audio cuts off. Blanche suggests Trump was starting a new sentence. “You have no idea what was said afterward.” “But it’s not what he told you,” Blanche says. “He told you that he got a phone call. He told you that he knew who the call from. Someone who worked at a bank. He said it was someone named Cathy Babble.” “You don’t know about the integrity of this file and this recording,” Blanche says of Michael Cohen’s 2016 recording. Trump attorney Todd Blanche reminds the jury that phone records show Michael Cohen did not pick up the phone call that he says interrupted the recording of his conversation with Trump. “He lied to you when he said he answered that call,” Blanche says. Blanche is now showing the AT&T phone records and the AT&T witness testimony that the phone call went to voicemail and was not answered. Trump attorney Todd Blanche is now turning to Stormy Daniels, noting it’s a “story” that took place in 2006, 18 years ago. “President Trump and Ms. Daniels have repeatedly denied it took place,” Blanche says. Blanche argues that Michael Cohen “made a decision to pay that $130,000 to Ms. Daniels, he didn’t tell President Trump about it because he knew he could get credit for doing something to help President Trump at some later time.” Blanche says “people were not happy with him on the campaign so he made this decision. The only person who suggests otherwise and tells you President Trump knew everything about this is Michael Cohen himself. That’s it. There’s no other proof of that.” “There’s no way that you can find that President Trump knew about this payment at the time it was made without believing the words of Michael Cohen, period. And you cannot — you cannot — believe his words,” Blanche says. Blanche says Daniels wanted the allegations about Trump pulled down from the website The Dirty in 2011 because then she couldn’t sell the story. Trump attorney Todd Blanche again suggests that because Stormy Daniels’ story was already out there in 2011, it was not election interference and it did not cause panic in the Trump campaign. “The public was aware of them, so again the idea that when Ms. Daniels surfaced in 2016 that it caused some sort of panic amongst everybody is not true, it’s just not true,” Blanche says. we are at a 10ish minute break. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4648 "2024-05-28T15:42:29Z")
prosecution is the last word. hence the fuming. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4649 "2024-05-28T15:42:47Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > To believe this, you have to believe that Trump - despite stiffing Cohen on his bonus, and despite deciding not to even consider Cohen for a White House position- agreed to keep Cohen ‘on call’ at a salary of $35,000 a month, which was _more_ than he was being paid when he was at the Trump Org. > > And Cohen did just a few things for the family that year. > > Meanwhile, Cohen (if you believe this) didn’t bother to get repaid for the $130,000 he laid out. I thought it had been established that there **wasn’t** a retainer agreement in place at the time Cohen was being reimbursed for the Daniels payment? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4650 "2024-05-28T15:46:16Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Yes they did. > > > [@rocking\_chair](#): > > > > “This case is about documents. It’s a paper case. This case is not about an encounter with Stormy Daniels 18 years ago,” Blanche says. > > > > “An encounter that President Trump has unequivocally and repeatedly denied occurred,” he adds That’s not a denial. Nothing about that statement is particularly unbelievable or likely to make the jury doubt the plausibility of what he says after that. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4651 "2024-05-28T15:46:51Z")
The defense’s summation certainly seems better than their strategy during questioning. My WAG is that this was written without Trump’s influence (or with less of it). It will be good that the prosecution is following this because some of these claims seem easy to rebut. I wonder though how much of the prosecution’s summation can be modified in response. If they estimate hours of delivery then that’s a lot of talking to rehearse. Changing too much might be impractical, especially if the judge wants them both done today. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4652 "2024-05-28T15:47:12Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I thought it had been established that there **wasn’t** a retainer agreement in place at the time Cohen was being reimbursed for the Daniels payment? Nothing in writing. But Trump’s lawyers are arguing that Cohen was ‘on call’ as Trump’s personal lawyer, via an informal understanding, and that’s why he was paid. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4653 "2024-05-28T15:48:43Z")
Ah. Yes, normal honest lawyers often work on an “informal” basis with no written agreements in place whatsoever. 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4654 "2024-05-28T15:55:54Z")
And that Cohen was so grateful to make so much money on retainer that he paid off hush money as a favor and Trump knew nothing about it. Such a swell guy who they’re also calling a greedy liar who stole from Trump at the same time. I’m convinced! ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4655 "2024-05-28T15:56:42Z")
we are back, mr blanche says he has about 30-40 minutes left. the jury has said they could go long today if ness. blanche is back on the daniels testimony. per cnn: Defense attorney Todd Blanche is back at the podium. He picks back up with Stormy Daniels in 2016. “Ms. Daniels has denied that there was ever any sex with President Trump in 2018 and earlier,” Blanche says. “But the government wants you to believe those statements were coerced.” Blanche is also questioning Daniels’ statements saying she was threatened in 2011 and that’s why she went public with the story involving Trump. Trump attorney Todd Blanche is now playing more of the recordings between Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen. In the recordings, Davidson, who was Stormy Daniels’ lawyer, says sometimes people “get settler’s remorse.” “At the end of the day, what really happened is that somebody offered more money to Ms. Daniels. Somebody offered to pay her legal fees if she got out of the NDA she signed with Mr. Cohen,” Blanche says “This started out as an extortion. There’s no doubt about that. And it ended very well for Ms. Daniels financially speaking,” Blanche says After the “Access Hollywood” tape came out in October 2016, Trump attorney Todd Blanche says, “Ms. Daniels and Ms. Rodriguez seized an opportunity,” speaking of Stormy Daniels and her then-publicist Gina Rodriguez. Blanche says they thought: “Now, now’s the time to strike.” Blanche shows a text messages between National Enquirer editor Dylan Howard and Rodriguez saying that he believed David Pecker would pay for Daniels’ story. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4656 "2024-05-28T16:07:15Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > That’s not a denial. Nothing about that statement is particularly unbelievable or likely to make the jury doubt the plausibility of what he says after that. Ok so they have now gone back to the “sex never happened” angle. IMO that is not going to help their case. > **[Live updates: Trump hush money trial closing arguments](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-28-24/h_39ea85e6631be2938299216a70cea1e1)** > > Attorneys for the prosecution and defense are delivering closing arguments Tuesday in Donald Trump's historic criminal hush money trial in New York. Follow here for the latest live news updates, analysis and more. ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4657 "2024-05-28T16:08:08Z")
huh, according to msnbc, blanche said that every election is a conspiracy to elect a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4658 "2024-05-28T16:09:50Z")
I guess that’s one way of looking at things. There was a vast conspiracy involved in me enjoying my cup of coffee this morning. So many people involved! So many things that had to be in the right place at the right time! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4659 "2024-05-28T16:09:56Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Ok so they have gone back to the “sex never happened” angle. IMO that is not going to help their case. Exactly. I take back what I said before about Trump not influencing this summation. This sounds like something he’d want them to reinforce so his followers can hear it. I have to say it might not even be stupid. If they see that this case is not going to go how he wants, his best bet is to do everything he can to be reelected despite being a convicted felon, and giving his base a reason to be fired up is one way to do that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2024, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953/4660 "2024-05-28T16:12:27Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > They have not so far mentioned the “she made it up” theory unfortunately (if they do that will clearly detract from their case as its so obvious that she did not make up the **affair** ) _Encounter_ feels more apt. > [@griffin1977](#): > > I wonder if the fear of a felony conviction has led Trump to give his lawyers **free reign** during summation to actually do their job ? _Free rein_ is _ **definitely** _ more apt. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=232) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/manhattan-prosecutors-file-criminal-charges-for-trump-re-stormy-daniels-case-ongoing-discussion-here-guilty-on-all-34-counts-may-30-2024/980953.md?page=234)